Irresponsibility at the Council of 🧝Elrond

Muskrat said:

I think that the characters are getting vibes from the Great Beyond

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This is one of the key elements of 'religion' Tolkien chooses to include in his work.

Pippin for example: No Pippin, no Balrog stirred up in Moria. No balrog stirred up, no battle with Gandalf. No 'death' of Gandalf, no returning as The White. No returning as The White, no readiness or power to depose Saruman. No deposing of Saruman, an entirely different result throughout.

The particular 'element' of religion Tolkien employs here (and elsewhere) is Providence.

And there we stop...!
Many want to push Providence into being a bit of his "Christian" or "Catholic" background, seeping into his works, 'in spite of his desire not to let it do so.'
Rubbish.
Providence is an 'element' of many 'religions'...not just Christianity or Catholacism.

Thank you for this opportunity, Muskrat. Perhaps our friend and consultant @Olorgando can see from this, the 'distinction' I try to draw between 'extracting from' Tolkien and what his work says, and 'reading into' Tolkien and what his work says. We can extract Providence as an included element. We cannot read into it its source as being his own religious background, as so many are wont to do.

This is what I mean by 'distinguishing between the man and his work.'

He did not agree with inclusion of 'overt Christianity' in any work(s).... but he stated the "elements of religion' must be included in any mythological work..! And many other mythological works as well as religions do include Providence. Thus we cannot correlate inclusion of Providence with himself, and his Catholic/Christian background. We can only correlate his awareness of Providence as an element in various religions. (So while we still 'make a distinction' it is entlrey different than the one so many authors constantly try to employ.)

From this and many other passages he wrote, we can clearly see his decision to incorporate 'Providence' as one of the 'elements' he would use. Anything beyond that is conjecture.

Now... if we happened to know unequivocally Tolkien never had any knowledge or awareness of anything related to Providence OTHER than from his Catholic/Christian background, perhaps THEN we could make the correlation... but it's simply not the case.

Hadhafang seems to confuse JRRT's great eagles with the Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk stealth attack aircraft that saw action in the 1991 US-Iraq war.
I've got news: eagles don't "work" that way.

Wise old Ent! The “fortuititous” arrivals of Tom Bombadil and Gildor, the orcs transportation of Merry nad Pippin to Fangorn, the unfortunate smoke that attracts Faramir’s band, the lucky fight of the orcs in Ungol’s tower, Providence is everywhere. When I was young I wondered if the West was fated to win, no matter how many mistakes our heroes made, even the last big one. Did the Valar have their thumb on the scales. I decided this would happen only if our guys tried really hard and their heart was in the right place.

Muskrat said:

I decided this would happen only if our guys tried really hard and their heart was in the right place.

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Right on the button. The other big P in the story: Perseverance, never giving up.