I've just spotted a massive flaw in 👁️Sauron's Ring plan.

[BalrogRingDestroyer]

Let's assume, for the sake of it, that Sauron succeeded in ensnaring 9 leaders of men, 7 leaders of dwarves, and 3 leaders of Elves. Who is to say that all the Men, Elves, and Dwarves would go along with their leaders, once it became clear that they were puppets of Sauron, rather than merely deposing them?

I mean, it would be one thing if Sauron had enough rings to ensnare their armies as well, but, if you recall a passage in Scouring of the Shire where Lotho first took over, it becomes clear that there was an uprising immediately in the Shire, or pretty close to it, once Lotho made himself dictator, and that he would likely have been deposed, had not his ruffian human allies backed him up, and, despite the numbers of the men and the mysterious "Sharky", once the heroes came back to the Shire, they were able to scour all those men and even defeat Saruman without significant Hobbit loss.

Presumably, one would think, that even if the likes of Celembrimbor, Durin, or Elros were to go rouge, that their men would NOT follow them into evil. Men would probably be the worst and Elves the best, at resisting a tyrant of a leader (as we saw with Numenor, but that was a long corruption anyway that was affecting leadership and the people alike. By the time Sauron effectively became vice-king of Numenor, the people and leadership and army were pretty well corrupted already by centuries of moral decline.)

Granted, some, again men, were prone to follow the leader, as was shown by the presumably noble men of Gondor, when they were willing to carry out Denethor's orders to kill himself and Faramir, but there were others like Boregrad who were willing to break the law (of the King, no less, and not just the orders of the Steward) to defy unjust orders.

I will also admit that a ton of the Noldor followed Feanor with the kinslaying, but also the Telari withstand their own fellow elves as they felt they were in the wrong.

Dwarves, interestingly, I have found no incidents of them defying a leader (it seemed that the whole company of the the dwarven travellers was willing to go against Thorin, save the Hobbit Bilbo, despite his crazy idea to have the gold and all for himself quite likely to lead to deaths by starvation and even unnecessary war, despite it being hinted at in the Hobbit that some of the dwarves didn't quite like the course of action.) However, dwarves are pretty stubborn and that might help in resisting unjust orders/leaders on a much larger scale, if the need arose.

Of course, if Sauron's controlled puppets were able to stay in power enough to cause enough civil war damage, Sauron could then sweep in and just wipe them all out (as was narrowly avoided had the goblins and wargs come just a little bit later to the fight between men, dwarves, and elves at Erebor.) But would they have been able to hold power that long or would they have been deposed quickly?

 

[Vorondil]

Let's assume, for the sake of it, that Sauron succeeded in ensnaring 9 leaders of men, 7 leaders of dwarves, and 3 leaders of Elves. Who is to say that all the Men, Elves, and Dwarves would go along with their leaders, once it became clear that they were puppets of Sauron, rather than merely deposing them?

Once they knew they where puppets of Sauron, it would have been to late for the men:

One by one, sooner or later, according to their native strength and to the good or evil of their wills in the beginning, they fell under the thraldom of the ring that they bore and under the domination of the One.

As for the Dwarves:

The Dwarves indeed proved tough and hard to tame; they ill endure the domination of others, thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows. They used their rings only for the getting of wealth.

It would appear that they could not be totally corrupted.

 

[Ent]

Let's assume, for the sake of it, that Sauron succeeded in ensnaring 9 leaders of men, 7 leaders of dwarves, and 3 leaders of Elves. Who is to say that all the Men, Elves, and Dwarves would go along with their leaders, once it became clear that they were puppets of Sauron, rather than merely deposing them?

We do not see this in any country at any time in history.
People in power corrupt all around them, and sweep the masses aside with their corrupted armies. Look at the world.

Now... Imagine Sauron not only had his full power with his ring... (remember, Melkor corrupted the very earth itself and it remains corrupted at the end of LoTR)... PLUS the power of the 3 elven rings alone, whose power is to "preserve" but Sauron corrupts them to their opposite... the power to destroy.

Scorched earth policies everywhere. Vast armies incapable of overcoming the will of not only he, but the 9, and 3.
Might there be some small underground movement hidden in corners of EA deathly afraid of being found, lest they too be destroyed? possibly. But for how long?

The free peoples knew they could not simply 'depose' Sauron, even without his own 'one ring'. That's what they were trying to do, and were failing miserably. Their only hope was in its destruction and destroying him in the process.

I hardly think if he'd gotten them all, there would have been power in the people to depose anyone. They would simply have 'gone down fighting' - which is in fact what they were doing even when he had no ring, and the nine were practically reduxced to petty mere scouts and scary folk. Their power would have grown greatly too, had he his ring.

Dictatorships begin because the person in power amasses more and more power, and simply crushes the opposition.
How many truly 'free' countries do we see in the world? Or is most of the world now literally in thrall to its governments.
Wanna find out? Try living differently.
Not only the governments, but the people themselves, will move quickly to try to smash you into the mold they prefer you to live in consistent with what they personally want... what is 'acceptable' to them in their own eyes.

 

[1stvermont]

Let's assume, for the sake of it, that Sauron succeeded in ensnaring 9 leaders of men, 7 leaders of dwarves, and 3 leaders of Elves. Who is to say that all the Men, Elves, and Dwarves would go along with their leaders, once it became clear that they were puppets of Sauron, rather than merely deposing them?

I mean, it would be one thing if Sauron had enough rings to ensnare their armies as well, but, if you recall a passage in Scouring of the Shire where Lotho first took over, it becomes clear that there was an uprising immediately in the Shire, or pretty close to it, once Lotho made himself dictator, and that he would likely have been deposed, had not his ruffian human allies backed him up, and, despite the numbers of the men and the mysterious "Sharky", once the heroes came back to the Shire, they were able to scour all those men and even defeat Saruman without significant Hobbit loss.

Presumably, one would think, that even if the likes of Celembrimbor, Durin, or Elros were to go rouge, that their men would NOT follow them into evil. Men would probably be the worst and Elves the best, at resisting a tyrant of a leader (as we saw with Numenor, but that was a long corruption anyway that was affecting leadership and the people alike. By the time Sauron effectively became vice-king of Numenor, the people and leadership and army were pretty well corrupted already by centuries of moral decline.)

Granted, some, again men, were prone to follow the leader, as was shown by the presumably noble men of Gondor, when they were willing to carry out Denethor's orders to kill himself and Faramir, but there were others like Boregrad who were willing to break the law (of the King, no less, and not just the orders of the Steward) to defy unjust orders.

I will also admit that a ton of the Noldor followed Feanor with the kinslaying, but also the Telari withstand their own fellow elves as they felt they were in the wrong.

Dwarves, interestingly, I have found no incidents of them defying a leader (it seemed that the whole company of the the dwarven travellers was willing to go against Thorin, save the Hobbit Bilbo, despite his crazy idea to have the gold and all for himself quite likely to lead to deaths by starvation and even unnecessary war, despite it being hinted at in the Hobbit that some of the dwarves didn't quite like the course of action.) However, dwarves are pretty stubborn and that might help in resisting unjust orders/leaders on a much larger scale, if the need arose.

Of course, if Sauron's controlled puppets were able to stay in power enough to cause enough civil war damage, Sauron could then sweep in and just wipe them all out (as was narrowly avoided had the goblins and wargs come just a little bit later to the fight between men, dwarves, and elves at Erebor.) But would they have been able to hold power that long or would they have been deposed quickly?

Consider what was needed from Gandalf the White and company in Rohan to turn around that situation. Further men often follow power, leaders with rings=power.

 

[ZehnWaters]

Let's assume, for the sake of it, that Sauron succeeded in ensnaring 9 leaders of men, 7 leaders of dwarves, and 3 leaders of Elves. Who is to say that all the Men, Elves, and Dwarves would go along with their leaders, once it became clear that they were puppets of Sauron, rather than merely deposing them?

I mean, it would be one thing if Sauron had enough rings to ensnare their armies as well, but, if you recall a passage in Scouring of the Shire where Lotho first took over, it becomes clear that there was an uprising immediately in the Shire, or pretty close to it, once Lotho made himself dictator, and that he would likely have been deposed, had not his ruffian human allies backed him up, and, despite the numbers of the men and the mysterious "Sharky", once the heroes came back to the Shire, they were able to scour all those men and even defeat Saruman without significant Hobbit loss.

Presumably, one would think, that even if the likes of Celembrimbor, Durin, or Elros were to go rouge, that their men would NOT follow them into evil. Men would probably be the worst and Elves the best, at resisting a tyrant of a leader (as we saw with Numenor, but that was a long corruption anyway that was affecting leadership and the people alike. By the time Sauron effectively became vice-king of Numenor, the people and leadership and army were pretty well corrupted already by centuries of moral decline.)

Granted, some, again men, were prone to follow the leader, as was shown by the presumably noble men of Gondor, when they were willing to carry out Denethor's orders to kill himself and Faramir, but there were others like Boregrad who were willing to break the law (of the King, no less, and not just the orders of the Steward) to defy unjust orders.

I will also admit that a ton of the Noldor followed Feanor with the kinslaying, but also the Telari withstand their own fellow elves as they felt they were in the wrong.

Dwarves, interestingly, I have found no incidents of them defying a leader (it seemed that the whole company of the the dwarven travellers was willing to go against Thorin, save the Hobbit Bilbo, despite his crazy idea to have the gold and all for himself quite likely to lead to deaths by starvation and even unnecessary war, despite it being hinted at in the Hobbit that some of the dwarves didn't quite like the course of action.) However, dwarves are pretty stubborn and that might help in resisting unjust orders/leaders on a much larger scale, if the need arose.

Of course, if Sauron's controlled puppets were able to stay in power enough to cause enough civil war damage, Sauron could then sweep in and just wipe them all out (as was narrowly avoided had the goblins and wargs come just a little bit later to the fight between men, dwarves, and elves at Erebor.) But would they have been able to hold power that long or would they have been deposed quickly?

It should be noted that the Rings enhance the native skills of their wearers. Great leaders become fearsome leaders with the ability to cow their subjects. The subjects may WISH to rebel, but they won't. They fear their leaders, which is exactly what happened with the 9. Where do you think Sauron got his army of Easterlings and Southrons and Black Númenóreans? We know Elves are capable of being cowed by wicked leaders as well, see Fëanor and Eöl.

 

[Aldarion]

Let's assume, for the sake of it, that Sauron succeeded in ensnaring 9 leaders of men, 7 leaders of dwarves, and 3 leaders of Elves. Who is to say that all the Men, Elves, and Dwarves would go along with their leaders, once it became clear that they were puppets of Sauron, rather than merely deposing them?

What was the last time, in either Middle Earth or our own world, that people deposed evil leaders rather than going along with their wishes?

I don't recall any.

So no, it is not really a flaw.

 

[ZehnWaters]

What was the last time, in either Middle Earth or our own world, that people deposed evil leaders rather than going along with their wishes?

I don't recall any.

So no, it is not really a flaw.

It's happened but only when there were extant rivals already in existence.

 

[1stvermont]

What was the last time, in either Middle Earth or our own world, that people deposed evil leaders rather than going along with their wishes?

I don't recall any.

So no, it is not really a flaw.

Not only is it not a flaw, I would argue it was a main theme of Tolkien's writings.

Amazon.com

 

[Olorgando]

Let's assume, for the sake of it, that Sauron succeeded in ensnaring 9 leaders of men, 7 leaders of dwarves, and 3 leaders of Elves.

In a way, with the Dwarves and Elves waning (for different reasons) and Men waxing - and basically everything east and south of Gondor being under Sauron's sway anyway, as JRRT implies - snaring Men would have been enough. He had an easy enough time with Númenor, after all.
His main flaw was assuming the Valar would never interfere in Middle-earth again - even if he attacked Valinor. The world-made-round cataclysm would have occurred anyway once he let himself be "captured" in SA 3262. Elendil and his followers escaping probably also so.

What would have happened with Sauron's ensnaring seven Dwarf lords and three Elf lords (or ladies) - for each of these peoples foreign domination was utter anathema, again for differing reasons. It's one of these questions that makes me think of ... erm .. questions like "what if the laws of gravity were repealed?" ... First off, would there have been that War of the Elves and Sauron in the Second Age? The intervention of the Númenóreans at the half-point of the Second Age? Which Lords or Ladies of the Elves would he have ensnared? Celebrimbor only distributed the Three Rings after Sauron's attack. Which Lord or Lady of the Elves would have accepted anything from Sauron after that???

Nah, the laws of gravity are still not subject to repeal ...

 

[ZehnWaters]

In a way, with the Dwarves and Elves waning (for different reasons) and Men waxing - and basically everything east and south of Gondor being under Sauron's sway anyway, as JRRT implies - snaring Men would have been enough. He had an easy enough time with Númenor, after all.
His main flaw was assuming the Valar would never interfere in Middle-earth again - even if he attacked Valinor.

This was a rather confounding conclusion on his part. Did he really think a direct attack on Valinor itself would go unanswered at all? Or did he simply think he'd have had a chance to flee Númenór before it was destroyed? Speaking of which, I rather like this picture. It's fun to see Sauron utterly stunned and reminded of his insignificance compared to his Maker.

 

[Deimos]

What was the last time, in either Middle Earth or our own world, that people deposed evil leaders rather than going along with their wishes?

I don't recall any.

So no, it is not really a flaw.

Thaaaank Youuuuuu .

 

[Amon Rudh]

Evil is a subjective description but what about Hitler, Hussein, Bin Laden........I'm sure there must be hundreds throughout history depending upon perspective. That said I tend to agree with most of the above points about Middle-earth.