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Lay of Leithian

Melkorendil

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Dec 18, 2024
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Hey there fellow Tolkien Fans,

I've noted that in the Lays of Beleriand/Lay of Leithian Recommended Christopher Tolkien on several occasions mentions a Version D of the Lay, which would begin with the revised beginning of manuscript c aka the lay recommended and continue somewhere in Canto 4 i believe with the B version shown earlier in the book, but with some changes listed there.

So my question is, is there anywhere to get the "full" text of version D? (With full I mean has anyone puzzled them together or something, do they even fit? )
 
Serious scholar?

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Anyway, welcome Melkondil!

I doubt the following will be exactly what you're looking for, but as there are a lot of words below, this post might seem helpful, if nothing else.

At the moment I'm only aware of a fan-version which includes certain invented internal names for Christopher Tolkien's external notations (like Christopher's "manuscript C", or the "D-typescript" for examples), as well as invented commentary from a certain "B.B." himself.

I didn't link it for possible legal reasons, but this version is discussed a bit in the linked thread. . .


Anyway, if I read the "signs" (Christopher Tolkien's commentary) correctly . . .

. . . initially he seems to have essentially given the reader a chunk of the D-typescript, in the sense that: "I give below the text of the manuscript C in its final form (that is, after certain changes have been made to it), so far as it goes (line 624), incorporating one or two very minor alterations made later to the D typescript(s), followed by a further short section (lines 625 - 660) found only in draft before being added to D."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if CJRT left out substantial revisions of D here (there were two copies of D, but I'm just going to use D). If I'm correct however, that's a pretty good chunk to start out with at least (pp. 331 - 348 in the HMC first edition).

As noted, the line ending this section is 660.

Then one would have to go through the commentary that follows and note anything we can with respect to the D-text > for example the first note for line 52 explains that in one of the D-texts Dungorthin was changed to Dungortheb, but Christopher Tolkien didn't change it in the preceding text (which indeed reads Dungorthin).

From here Christopher Tolkien writes that from the end of the rewritten opening (again, line 660), the D typescript continues as a copy of B to the end of the poem, but though it was certainly made under Tolkien's supervision "it is of very minor textual value in itself"

For the next section (Canto III) we find a substitution of 142 new lines, of which Tolkien
typed the first 103, and which we know were inserted into the D-text. What about the rest in manuscript? Christopher Tolkien had also commented that: "There is a quantity of rough draft material in manuscript, but also a typescript made by my father of the first 103 lines, inserted into the D-text."

Anyway, all this to say, if one were to follow the rest of the new writing and commentary (which isn't relatively that much with respect to the older Lay) one could try to figure out what made it into the D-text.

Anyway again, to almost but not really answer your question (!): My hope would be "yes" it all fits well enough (if not down to every single line), assuming that JRRT would be aware that any new writing should fit nicely within what was already written. . .

. . . ahem.

But I'm too pedantic to just say yes it all fits perfectly without actually doing more study on
the matter. It wouldn't be a ton of work with respect to just the text: "Of the original Lay scarcely more than a sixth is represented in the rewriting, and the proportion of new verse to old is less than a quarter."

But all the possible thinking/comparing! That could notably interfere with naps beyond my current schedule, and my awake time possibly includes more babble about Galadriel's wonderful feet!

Using less words: I guess I don't know where to get such a version 🐾

Well, I tried to appear serious (and scholarish) ;)

Anyone else?
 
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@Elthir Feet or not (I'm much more a fan of Mairons long ginger hair ) Thank you anyway for your awesome answer, while it might not be written in a scholastic manner, I believe ti could agree to call you a scholar just for the tremendous amount of knowledge on the matter that you have just presented.

I know this Fan made version, which was kind of my fist start into this Matter before I discovered that the Lay is written down in different versions in the Lay of Beleriand (which I had bought anyway but one can buy books in badges just not read them all at once )
Besides the in my opinion unnecessary and sometimes disturbing commentary (which wouldn't bother me if they would be like links in an ebook that you can read or choose to ignore ) the biggest flaw of this version is an repeating error of mismatched lines. Sometimes some lines disappear entirely sometimes a single line appears twice but in a place where it don't fit etc (at least as far as I read )

So if one would want a serious attempt on getting a readable version of the reworked text one would have to stich it together oneself right?
Like starting of with the 660 lines of the lay recommended and then with what be the 3rd /4th Canto including the mentioned changes like the four lines in canto 4 of the b script lines 884 ff.
And since I am already way too deep down the rabbit hole, there's no return I believe I have to do this. (Wish me luck) would you be interested in looking over it once I managed to compile it ?

Not able to use less words.
Melkondil
 
So if one would want a serious attempt on getting a readable version of the reworked text one would have to stich it together oneself right?

As far as I'm aware (or recall) at the moment, yes. I'd think there'd be more Tolkien/poetry lovers who'd take up this task, but so far, the version in the linked thread is the only one I know of.

And you appear to have read more of the linked version than I have. I skimmed it and posted certain examples to make my points, but I certainly didn't read it thouroughly -- or however one spells thoroughly.

And since I am already way too deep down the rabbit hole, there's no return I believe I have to do this. (Wish me luck)

Gotta love those rabbit holes! Good luck and have fun!

would you be interested in looking over it once I managed to compile it?

I'd be interested but I don't like to promise things -- life being unpredictable and all that.

and so much to do; including my wonderful naps

Not able to use less words.
Melkondil

LOL!

I didn't count 'em, but it certainly seems like you've employed the right amount!

🐾
 

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