let's discuss biological warfare in ME

[Hisoka Morrow]

Biological warfare, has been always a effective annihilating warfare to destroy enemy's personnel strength according to common sense. There're sevral cases of good usages of such warfare, such as the great plague in the 3rd age. And I found out that...orcs can get no infection, in other words, they've the superior personnel health quality against biological warfare.
Even though it seems that the Great Plague in the 3rd Age is the only successful case of biological warfare, it's effectiveness is dramatical, leading to the decline of Gondor, the worst nightmare of Sauron's reconquest.
Any constructive thought or other sources from JRRT about biological warfare in ME are welcomed to provide. In particuliar about orcs' immunity against biological warfare is a interesting topic to discuss, as it might overthrow the stereotype considering the orcs as cannon folders in military.

 

[Eldacar]

What's your source on Orcs being immune to disease? Because I have to differ on that notion.

"They needed food and drink, and rest, though many were by training as tough as Dwarves in enduring hardship. They could be slain, and they were subject to disease; but apart from these ills they died and were not immortal, even according to the manner of the Quendi; indeed they appear to have been by nature short-lived compared with the span of Men of higher race, such as the Edain." (Morgoth's Ring, Orcs)

This passage was also found by a user discussing the effect of the Great Plague on Sauron's Armies in this Reddit Post. The same user also points out that in Appendix A it says, that "[...] the enemies of Gondor also suffered [from the Plague]". Based on that, I think there is hardly any evidence to support the argument of Orcs being immune. Of course, they are much faster to reproduce and heal (in pure numbers) the damage done by illness. But when considering they too rather needlessly died of the plague alike the men of Gondor, this is one of the best examples where they have been used as cannon fodder or more precisely a replaceable resource.

 

[Eljorahir]

Another example from The Children of Hurin:

"...there came an ill wind from the North under leaden skies. The Evil Breath it was called, for it was pestilent; and many sickened and died in the fall of the year in the northern lands that bordered on the Anfauglith, and they were for the most part the children or the rising youth in the houses of Men."

Young Turin was sickened but survived the illness. However, he lost his little sister Lalaith to the sickness of the Evil Breath. 😢

 

[Ent]

Well, I'd really rather not discuss warfare of any kind - it's a bit morbid.
However:
1. A Plague is not necessarily biological warfare, and I can't find anything about the "Great Plague" indicating it was such. It simply 'came out of the east and south.' This could mean many things, but is there any direct evidence it was 'manufactured' and not just carried by those in the east and south also suffering ffom it?
2. Even if the Great Plague IS an example of biological warfare, if it is the only 'effective use' of it, how can we say Biological Warfare has "always" been an effective means?
3. I must join @Eldacar in asking for the source of the Orcs theorized immunity? It is as likely they brought it "from the east and south" as it is any other group 'east and south." And there are passages militating against such a conclusion, including @Eljorahirs too, now. Is the source Tolkien textual, or FanFic, or "game" or ???

The most effective "war" ever existing, was the one only theorized and considered, but entirely avoided - which only requires a small bit of brains and common sense to do.

Anyway, other than this I've no response to the subject.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'd also be interested in any sources for "creation" by Sauron. I know of no suggestions of deliberate introduction by him or anyone; in fact, I suspect Tolkien's inspiration was the great Justinian Plague that ravaged Europe for a decade in the 540s, and reappeared periodically for 200 years.

 

[Ent]

it might overthrow the stereotype considering the orcs as cannon folders in military.

Too, this would be a difficult stereotype to overthrow. And not just with the Orcs.
Sauron (and Melkor) did little planning in their warfares, though they were exceedingly clever otherwise - especially Sauron, whose cleverness and effectiveness exceeded Melkors, according to Tolkien.

The sole 'trump card' played by the Discord was pure numbers. Everywhere we read they hurled themselves at the defenders with reckless abandon, driven by nothing but the fierce hatred of their kind and Sauron's will for example.

The very nature of the warfare conducted "in those days" lent itself more to an issue of 'sheer numbers' than with later "accomplishments" like being able to blow a continent up safely, sitting in your office in your home town.

 

[Eldacar]

I'd also be interested in any sources for "creation" by Sauron. I know of no suggestions of deliberate introduction by him or anyone; in fact, I suspect Tolkien's inspiration was the great Justinian Plague that ravaged Europe for a decade in the 540s, and reappeared periodically for 200 years.

As far as I am aware, there is no source for a deliberate creation by Sauron, but one has to admit that something coming from the east or the south of Middle-Earth more often than not means two things:

1. It's something bad
2. It's that way because Sauron meddled in it

Even though there is no solid evidence of this creation, to me, it is highly likely that Sauron at least made the plague worse than it would have been otherwise if he didn't create the whole ordeal all together. As a reader, I always chose to believe the latter, though I have no answer to the question of why Sauron, if he could, didn't send one plague after the other, or at least send it multiple times. Why was it a one of event?

 

[d4rk3lf]

Maybe the orcs are susceptible to plague and viruses, but no one ever catch anything, because Sauron organized regular preventive vaccination.

 

[Deimos]

Maybe the orcs are susceptible to plague and viruses, but no one ever catch anything, because Sauron organized regular preventive vaccination.

Well yeah, but what about the orcs who refused to get vaccinated?.....(I'll bet they didn't wear any orc-masks either)...😉

 

[Eldacar]

They hold protests at Barad Dur, calling the Plague a Gondorian Hoax aimed to weaken Mordor's economy. 😄

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

@Ent @Eldacar OKOK, me bad in the first places for having no certain clues proving the Great Plagues was a biological warfare😅. And about orcs health, I should have stated that there's no records of orcs sickness in the first places instead. I'll state more carefully about the information known next time😅

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

There is that incident with the ointment, which they call "medicine", so medical treatment exists, admittedly for wounds in this case. There's just not enough information for much more than speculation.

Orcs are said to "hate even their own kind" so other than in conflict, would have little or no close contact with humans; perhaps relative isolation might have spared them from the worst effects of the plague?

 

[Idril Celebrindal]

I guess the orcs catapulting severed heads into Minas Tirith during the Siege of Gondor could count as biological warfare. Heads lying in the street can't be very sanitary.
There's also the Black Breath, but I don't know if the effects of that are biological or psychological.

 

[Vardarianna]

I would think that orc-breath would qualify as biological warfare....