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Looking for those of the Tolkien Religion!

I have found about 8 places in the Bible with variations on: "The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in mercy/love". This Lord is entirely compatible with the one in Tolkien's mythology (where would The Lord of the Rings be without mercy?).
faila said:
Why would a god choose to work through someone who didnt believe in him?
The Bible (especially the OT) is full of just such incidences. But the fact is that Tolkien was not just a nominal Catholic, he lived his religion: "I fell in love with the Blessed Sacrament from the beginning - and by the mercy of God never have fallen out again: but alas! I indeed did not live up to it. ... Out of wickedness and sloth I almost ceased to practise my religion - especially at Leeds, and at 22 Northmoor Road. Not for me the Hound of Heaven, but the never-ceasing silent appeal of Tabernacle, and the sense of starving hunger. I regret those days bitterly (and suffer for them with such patience as I can be given); most of all because I failed as a father. Now I pray for you all, unceasingly, that the Healer shall heal my defects, and that none of you shall ever cease to cry Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini." ("Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.") - Letter 250 1.Nov.63 to Michael Tolkien.

Despite the God of Middle-earth resembling the Christian God in character, the above does not sound like someone who would want the religion he created in Myth to be exported into the real world.
 
In my understanding letter #250 is one where Tolkien not only expresses his own doubts about his faith - after all it appears that he has been at least pondering to leave the church - but also openly questions religion, church and its proponents, the clerus.

So, IMO the part quoted above is hardly representative for the contents of Letter #250, apropriate maybe within the context of a debate where one wants to make a point rather than present some information in an unbiased way.
 
Fighting talk!

The letter is a response to a most despondent son, many miles away. Tolkien speaks mainly of the failings of Christians, whilst maintaining devotion to the Faith. It might be summed up in the quote "For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more - remembering my own sins and follies; and realize that men's hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words. (...) You speak of 'sagging faith', however. That is quite another matter. In the last resort faith is an act of will, inspired by love. Our love may be chilled and our will eroded by the spectacle of the shortcomings, folly and even sins of the Church and its ministers, but I do not think that one who has once had faith goes back over the line for these reasons." The 'ifs' that Tolkien uses towards the middle of the letter, if you read it carefully, are hypothetical. Even skimming the letter, one must conclude that it would be unthinkable for such a man to write to a depressed, convalescing son in such terms if it were not to build the latter's faith up.

Though I am not a Catholic, having put myself under the care of Church pastors who turned out to be less than holy, causing more pain than healing, I can relate to Tolkien's words in this letter.

I am particularly fascinated by his claims for the emotional healing powers of the Sacrament. I have not tested his claim, being too idle to attend church every day to receive it (I think it is 7.00am on weekdays at our local Anglican Church), though I would love to hear the opinions of those who have. (There are those who would tell me that Anglican communion is not the real thing anyway, seeing as how that group were all excommunicated from the RC Church about 500 years ago.)
 
No, I have no desire for a fight or anything of the like, too high is my respect for you, your knowledge and your beliefs.

But I feel people are often reading their beliefs or thoughts into the words of an author they like. And when posts here get an "evangelizing" touch, I sometimes feel obligued to point out that a "theological" approach to Tolkien and his works is not the only possible way to enjoy his epos, and not necessarily the best or right one...

If there is one crucial sentence in this letter, it is

However, He alone knows each soul and its circumstances.

IMHO, that is, of course...
 
Sorry, did I get preachy? The Bible is to me what the 6.30 out of Paddington is to a trainspotter - exciting! The quote you give is, of course, the most important, and the truth that is most frequently overlooked. It also happens to be the one I am most grateful for.
 
This probably will be the only post I'll make in this thread.

First of all, I find it a silly idea to call "religion" the mere state of liking Tolkien's writings!
Second, even that I don't find the Bible exciting from any other point of view but historical, or/and Christianity or/and any other religion truly and honestly contributing to the development of the human individual, I still know what these are about, I have a fair idea of their structure and function ... and I can't see too much a resemblance between THE God in the Christian religion and Eru - Iluvatar in Tolkien's mythology.
Tolkien's dieties were created as the fundamental elements any mythology would have. And in this, they are much more like pagan dieties than any of those worshiped in Christian religion.

As for sins and their absolution ... Ask a most fanaticly faithful Conquistador after having slain a village of Indians and after having robbed the dead bodies from all the gold he could've found on them, after which he has gone and destroyed the temples and the constructions of a civilization ages older than his own... What if he repents?! What if his sins have been forgiven? Will this bring back the dead to life? Will this bring back the demolished cultural and architectural sites?
 
Farewell

I am extremely disappointed at where this thread is going. This is what happens when I look for others of my religion. I will be leaving the Tolkien Forum Namarie, my friends, and may the Valar protect you.
 
This is probably the greatest similarity between real Christianity and Tolkien's Middle-earth religion. Even Saruman was offered mercy in the hope that he would find a cure; and as the hymn by Charles Wesley states: "The vilest offender who truly believes, that moment from Jesus a pardon receives."

And Walter - I offer this for comparison, not to preach

I am sorry that Teledhelwen has chosen to leave such a rich Tolkien Forum because its members do not worship Iluvatar, but Professor Tolkien would have been apalled if we did.
 
Teledhelwen said:
I am extremely disappointed at where this thread is going. This is what happens when I look for others of my religion. I will be leaving the Tolkien Forum Namarie, my friends, and may the Valar protect you.
Any discussion concerning Middle-Earth religion or religion based on Middle-Earth is bound to get intertwined with Christianity - Tolkien's own religion. Your desire to leave the forum seems to me unreasonable and uncalled for. But if that is your wish I bid you a fond farewell and the best of luck in all your endeavours.
 
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An interesting point indeed! But Saruman was not to receive pardon from Jesus or anyone else. Not even Aragorn.

As interesting IMO - in this context (sorry for the lengthy quote, but the passage is IMO crucial to understanding Tolkien's stance on that issue:

 
I can't find the connection between my example and your statemnet, El!

And ... BTW, would it really be the right thing to call Tolkien's mythology a "religion"????
 
Your quote, Walter, is about Tolkien's views on Beowulf isn't it? The way I read LotR, the 'pardon' was unspoken, and came with the 'cure'. Gandalf offered Saruman a way out. His previous rank was no longer available, but he was offered fellowship. It seems to me that one who was considered 'reformed' was allowed back into the fold, being perceived as a changed person and no longer a danger. In this, Tolkien's myth goes further than the actual practices of modern Christianity.

And yes, Lhun; I am using the word 'religion' quite loosely - perhaps too much so, as it is the practice of deference to a deity that makes a religion, not the existence of said deity.

Beowulf's byrne was made by Weland, and the iron shield he bore against the serpent by his own smiths: it was not yet the breastplate of righteousness, nor the shield of faith for the quenching of all the fiery darts of the wicked.
This is interesting; for most of the British gods (who were barely distinguishable from men) were 'converted' into saints via the tales of monks who, unable to wean people off their gods, embellished or distorted the original stories with Christian content so the people venerated a Christianised figure. They were obviously pretty good storytellers, judging by the number of local saints dotted around Wales, Cornwall and Ireland.
 
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