Numenorian height

[Alatar]

I work out their heght ( from UT) as being 1.9 metres of 6ft 4inches(at the begining of the third age).However tolkein seems to hint that it could be taller than that (ie elendil IMO is 2.10 metres).
So was the dunadian height increase as they lived in numenor and became more like elves, or in the first age were the edain still that high, and while they were in numenor the easterlings(swarthy men) mingled with the northmen to decrease there hight.

 

[HLGStrider]

I figured the Numenoreans were always tall, though I imagine that when they were sequestered on Numenor, the gene managed to "refine" itself, if you will becoming more dominent and pervasive simply because they weren't interbreeding with shorter men. I mean, six foot four is nice and normal in a tall way. I'm five four. I used to be in love with a guy who was six five and it made me feel really short. . .anyway. . .but Elendil was over seven foot tall if you do the math, and around that sort of guy I would look like a six year old.

 

[Gil-Galad]

Having in mind that for Tolkien (or at least in his books),height was a result from one's dignity,greatness,nobility,strenght (spiritual as well as physical) we could be sure that the Numenorean were much higher than the tribes who stayed in Middle-earth after the War of Wrath.

But I just can not think of any source saying anything more about the height of the Numenoreans.

By the way how did you work it out??

 

[Valandil]

Tolkien gives some information on Numenorean measure - and heights in the Appendix on the story "Disaster of the Gladden Fields" in Unfinished Tales. He tells us that their basic unit of measure was the "ranga" and that it was approximately 38" (I think that would be around 96 or 97 cm - right?). He says that their use of 'man-high' referred to 2 rangar - so that would be 6'-4" - but also says that this was not necessarily an observed average among their adult males - but just a general statement (I got the impression that their average might actually be taller) - and also that this came into use when they were already in decline.

His statement about Elendil, mentioned almost offhand, is that he was "more than man-high by nearly half a ranga" - 2.5 rangar would be 7'-11" - which corresponds to 2.4 meters - so Elendil was just a bit shy of that, according to this note.

 

[HLGStrider]

Is it possible that "man-high" refers not to the average height of a man when full grown, but to the average height of a boy upon reaching "manhood." I don't know when Numenoreans considered the male coming of age to be, but many cultures set the age around 13. From my observations, many thirteen-year-olds still have a good four inches of growth from this point on, more if they are destined to be truly tall. I hit my full height at fourteen, but I'm a fairly short female, and I have known boys to shoot up as much as five inches from fifteen to twenty.

 

[Walter]

Having in mind that for Tolkien (or at least in his books),height was a result from one's dignity,greatness,nobility,strenght (spiritual as well as physical) we could be sure that the Numenorean were much higher than the tribes who stayed in Middle-earth after the War of Wrath.

Does that make the trolls the creatures with the most dignity, greatness, nobility & strength (spiritual as well as physical)?

 

[Gil-Galad]

Does that make the trolls the creatures with the most dignity, greatness, nobility & strength (spiritual as well as physical)?

it seems so

 

[Ithrynluin]

He says that their use of 'man-high' referred to 2 rangar - so that would be 6'-4"

As a side note, in that same passage it is said that Galadriel was 6'4" and therefore - 'man high' and so was Celeborn. She was the tallest of elven women that tales speak of, so elven women were generally not 'man high'. Celeborn was considered tall for one of the Teleri (in the version of the story where he is one of them), who were generally of shorter stature than the Noldor. So it may be assumed that male Noldor could be taller than 'man high'.

 

[HLGStrider]

Does that make the trolls the creatures with the most dignity, greatness, nobility & strength (spiritual as well as physical)?

A good counter. . . but it is a point that Tolkien did tie in heighth with majesty in humans. Obviously some very very good creatures are very very short and some very very bad creatures are very very tall, but generally, in Tolkien's mythos, phyisical appearance is used to suggest and enhance demeanor. Good is generally lovely. Bad is generally ugly. Kings are generally tall. Elves have funny ears.

It's part of the world.

Tolkien, interestingly enough, is noted by H. Carpenter as being under average height (I am sure someone here knows the exact height of Tolkien. I can't remember it off the top of my head . . . personally, I have always seen him to be about five' eight'', simply because that is my dad's height and what I consider to be just under average height which I consider to be five' ten'', my uncle's height. . .). Tolkien always more associated himself with Bilbo than Aragorn, obviously.

I have observed, however that men of short to average height tend to write taller heroes. Humans find height impressive.

 

[Valandil]

As a side note, in that same passage it is said that Galadriel was 6'4" and therefore - 'man high' and so was Celeborn...

I don't think it says that about Celeborn. I had the impression he was much taller.

Not sure where it's from, but I've seen someone cite a passage which either states or implies that the Noldor averaged 7' tall.

 

[Ithrynluin]

I don't think it says that about Celeborn. I had the impression he was much taller.

It is nowhere stated outright. However, when the Fellowship is introduced to Celeborn and Galadriel for the first time the following observation is made:

The Fellowship of the Ring; The Mirror of Galadriel
Very tall they were, and the Lady no less tall than the Lord

From which one can assume that both are of the same height, which is 6'4''.

Not sure where it's from, but I've seen someone cite a passage which either states or implies that the Noldor averaged 7' tall.

Cannot recall where that is stated, but it must go for the males only, since Galadriel, a female Noldo, was the tallest elven woman at 6'4''.

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

The gravity's less in Numenor.

Barley

 

[Walter]

A good counter. . .

I did not mean to counter. 'twas just ... ummm ... maybe sort of a potluck comment. Or a hint that there's seldom a rule without an exception...

Had I intented to counter I might as well have made a remark about the coming of age and its relation to the lifespan, or I might have asked if there is indeed a statement of Tolkien about "funny" or "pointed" ears of elves...

 

[Gil-Galad]

So finally is there any conclusion about their height?Conclusion that is not based on speculations like-less gravity and etc. ...