'One Adaptation to Ruin Them All'

[Deimos]

Wattabout cat-centric?

Cat-Centric enough?

 

[Radaghast]

Here's one article I pretty much totally agree with (except maybe the first paragraph):

“I am No Man” Doesn’t Cut It: The Story of Eowyn​

 

[Deimos]

Here's one article I pretty much totally agree with:

“I am No Man” Doesn’t Cut It: The Story of Eowyn​

Excellent article... well written, spot on analysis of Eowyn.
So good I copied the article and saved it.
If there's a "call for papers" on Tolkien characters, Mariah Huehner should submit hers.

 

[Samsimple]

I really enjoy this discussion, and the nuances between the formats. Being sick the last couple days, I cheered myself up with the Extended Edition, which I had surprisingly never seen before. It was not until I was thinking about it afterward that I realized how so many little tweaks had reduced the profoundness and emotion of the books. The 2 changes that were the most jarring to me:

Faramir
This perhaps began when I stumbled on an interpretation of the allure of the ring as desire for power usurped. In my last reading, that gave so much meaning to every interaction with the ring. Of course, Faramir's is unique. Tragic from the get-go, being estranged from his father because he is simply not his brother, it would have been justifiable if he had seen the ring as an opportunity. But he didn't, and instead recognized the danger. Faramir is one of my favorite characters, and his honor for his restraint can't be overstated. Of course the film doesn't completely ruin him, but changed him profoundly. The argument I have heard is that it isn't realistic, based on how almost all others had a visible struggle with desire, this makes him more relatable, more human. The thing they seem to miss is that not only was Faramir more meek than Boromir, but he was a pupil of Gandalf. Gandalf seems to be very aware of the nature of Ea and the physics of Arda, and would have likely tried to share them with an eager pupil. One of the laws seems to be that power usurped will corrupt, regardless of motive. It seems fully plausible to me that Faramir embody the character Tolkien intended, and the films missed the mark.

Scouring
Runtime constraints, I get it. But it adds so much profoundness to the story. Also, even Bilbo came back to disarray and distrust of his neighbors, and it makes so much more sense than holding time still. As I have heard others say, as soon as Saruman learned of the halflings he started his subtle destruction. I think the films make him a one-dimensional villain as he comes across as a lapdog for Sauron. In the books, obviously, it takes until the end to uproot all the deceit and corruption bred by his ambition, as well as the stain of Mordor on all things post-war. Then we have the interaction of the Shire-folk with the tyrants and each other. First we have Frodo the peacemaker, advocating for no unnecessary killing, even of Saruman. I thought this was profound, especially since early on he told Gandalf that Bilbo should have killed Gollum when he had the chance. Then we have the other Hobbits from the Fellowship. It's amazing how we get to see them put affairs in order by utilizing their new skill and confidence, as well as their roles as "Messengers of Gondor" rather than requiring the services of their allies. There is something deeply empowering about that. Also, it would seem that Sam's newfound wisdom from his experience, combined with the fact that he was instrumental in rebuilding the Shire, had something to do with him being Mayor for 12 years. There is just a huge amount of meaningful stuff that we miss out from this chapter being omitted.

 

[Olorgando]

had something to do with him {Sam} being Mayor for 12 years. There is just a huge amount of meaningful stuff that we miss out from this chapter being omitted.

Welcome to TTF, SamS .
Unfortunately, I'm going to take the occasion to trot out one of my probably less-admired traits, that of the detail-nerdy nitpicker.
Sam was elected Mayor of the Shire seven times (see the end of Appendix B, the last page and a bit) between Shire Reckoning 1427 and 1469, so he was Mayor for 49 years.

 

[Radaghast]

Scouring
Runtime constraints, I get it. But it adds so much profoundness to the story. Also, even Bilbo came back to disarray and distrust of his neighbors, and it makes so much more sense than holding time still. As I have heard others say, as soon as Saruman learned of the halflings he started his subtle destruction. I think the films make him a one-dimensional villain as he comes across as a lapdog for Sauron. In the books, obviously, it takes until the end to uproot all the deceit and corruption bred by his ambition, as well as the stain of Mordor on all things post-war. Then we have the interaction of the Shire-folk with the tyrants and each other. First we have Frodo the peacemaker, advocating for no unnecessary killing, even of Saruman. I thought this was profound, especially since early on he told Gandalf that Bilbo should have killed Gollum when he had the chance. Then we have the other Hobbits from the Fellowship. It's amazing how we get to see them put affairs in order by utilizing their new skill and confidence, as well as their roles as "Messengers of Gondor" rather than requiring the services of their allies. There is something deeply empowering about that. Also, it would seem that Sam's newfound wisdom from his experience, combined with the fact that he was instrumental in rebuilding the Shire, had something to do with him being Mayor for 12 years. There is just a huge amount of meaningful stuff that we miss out from this chapter being omitted.

Yes, it would have been challenging to incorporate the Scouring, but it's actually integral, if not technically essential to the story (by that I mean, the movies did manage to tell the story by cutting the Scouring, even if badly, imho).

You can't just cut such a large part of the story without losing meaning. The same can be said about Tom Bombadil. I supposed the movies proved he could successfully omitted and still tell the story (again, technically), but the story loses much by it. And the movies are clearly not the entire story.

 

[Samsimple]

Welcome to TTF, SamS .
Unfortunately, I'm going to take the occasion to trot out one of my probably less-admired traits, that of the detail-nerdy nitpicker.
Sam was elected Mayor of the Shire seven times (see the end of Appendix B, the last page and a bit) between Shire Reckoning 1427 and 1469, so he was Mayor for 49 years.

Thanks Olorgando! I appreciate nerdy nitpicking. I wrote that from memory as I listened to it on audio book, and I was not careful to verify. Even so, I had not considered him being Mayor 49 years, or the term lengths, that is incredible!

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Sam was elected Mayor of the Shire seven times

Furthermore, Pippin was Thain of the Shire, and Merry was Master of Buckland. Pretty cool stuff!

 

[Olorgando]

Furthermore, Pippin was Thain of the Shire, and Merry was Master of Buckland. Pretty cool stuff!

True, as of 1434 SR the three remaining Hobbits of the Fellowship held all significant posts in the Shire.
But in contrast to Sam's being elected seven times, Merry ascended to the title of Master of Buckland in SR 1432 (at age 50), and Pippin to that of Thain in SR 1434 (at age of 44) by the biologically-aristocratic fact of their dads dying.

 

[Elthir]

Scouring
Runtime constraints, I get it.

Aha! But think of a director who, at the outset, before a single frame was shot, planned to include
the Scouring from the "get-go". Then, I would argue, that runtime considerations could work around including the Scouring from the . . . ahhh . . . get-go.

or don't think of it you don't have to listen to me I often don't.

 

[Radaghast]

I wonder if anyone has attempted a script that accommodates both T-Bomb and the Scouring. It would be an interesting exercise.

 

[Samsimple]

I wonder if anyone has attempted a script that accommodates both T-Bomb and the Scouring. It would be an interesting exercise.

Okay, you got me. I can't find anything. What is T-Bomb?

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Okay, you got me. I can't find anything. What is T-Bomb?

Tom Bombadil. Hehe.🙃

 

[Samsimple]

Tom Bombadil. Hehe.🙃

Oh for crying out loud, of course! Whoosh, haha

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I've said it before, but will say it again: after seeing the movies, I was glad they left Tom out.

I mean, just imagine . . .

 

[Radaghast]

I've said it before, but will say it again: after seeing the movies, I was glad they left Tom out.

I mean, just imagine . . .

Yeah, he might have cast himself as Tom..!

*shudder*

Or maybe Jack Black!

Actually, that could totally work.

 

[Samsimple]

I definitely had a visceral reaction to Jack Black as Tom, woah!

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

There's a youtube "Jack Black LOTR" video, but I won't post it here.

 

[Radaghast]

I know the one you mean 😆

 

[Deimos]

I know the one you mean 😆

Sophomoric potty humor typical of grade school boys... of all ages 🙄