📊Poll: Do Balrogs have wings?

[Elwing the White]

Personally, I like to imagine them with wings, even if it is just an illusion.
I find it strange that people get so worked up about this. I wonder if anyone has changed their username to "BALROGS DO NOT HAVE WINGS!!!" lately...

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Glaurung doesn't.

Oops -- you're right, I'd forgotten that. 😵‍💫

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

So now we're going to say even dragons don't have wings?! 😳

Agree with the wizard, no wings, at least not for Glarung.

Personally, I like to imagine them with wings, even if it is just an illusion.
I find it strange that people get so worked up about this. I wonder if anyone has changed their username to "BALROGS DO NOT HAVE WINGS!!!" lately...

My xbox gamertag is 'BalrogWing' 🤪

 

[Radaghast]

Agree with the wizard, no wings, at least not for Glarung.

Yup, not until the War of Wrath.

 

[Radaghast]

I wonder if anyone has changed their username to "BALROGS DO NOT HAVE WINGS!!!" lately...

No, but a good idea is a good idea 👊

 

[Elwing the White]

No, but a good idea is a good idea 👊

Perhaps not your username, but it appears you have added it to your signature.

 

[Radaghast]

Perhaps not your username, but it appears you have added it to your signature.

Hm, yes... Curious... 🤔

 

[TrackerOrc]

Because it is a metaphor. Sorry you don't see it that way.


No, I'm not saying the Balrog wore a cape. I'm just saying lots of things can create the illusion of wings. Your argument that only wings can look like wings isn't convincing to me.


No, it doesn't (and no, they still don't). And so what are the wings for if not for flying, if you believe them to be physical extensions of his body? Let's look at the text again (emphasis mine):

What about this says the Balrog actually has wings? I mean, if Tolkien wanted to say the thing had wings he would have said so; he wouldn't have used what is obviously a simile. Also, no other description of Balrogs in any other text mentions even a whisper of a hint of wings, and there's no mention by Gandalf of gigantic wings flapping and flopping about when he describes his fight with the Balrog. There is also no description of wings in the creature's introduction. Yet the "pro-wings" lot latch onto "its wings" like a pitbull on a piece of raw meat. But this argument simply doesn't fly; there just isn't any evidence to keep it aloft (puns very much intended). You're absolutely right, the text is plain, but somehow you (and others) are reading it incorrectly. The biggest reason for arguing for wings seems to be that "it looks cool".

Moving on, after the Balrog cracks its fiery whip, Gandalf tells it that his "dark fire will not avail" him, to which:

You don't see a metaphor here? You think the Balrog is lugging around these huge appendages large enough to fill the entire cavern around the Bridge of Khazad-dûm? Sorry, that's plain bonkers. The darkness grew. The Balrog has power to spread darkness in a way that is reminiscent of wings, but they are not actual wings.

Anyway, to avoid the risk of repeating my self ad tedium, (and since I'm taking this argument more seriously than I should) this is going to be my last word on this. Believe what you will. Thank you.

In the spirit of magnanimity and cooperation for which Orcs are renowned, suppose we say that the first instance is indeed a simile/metaphor, and not real wings.

What does this have to do with the second instance where Tolkien clearly and unequivocally states that the creature stands up and spreads its wings? Nothing at all. I suspect, as I've stated that he was priming us in the first instance, but that's debatable.

And where is it written in stone that the Moria Balrog can't fly? This is worth another thread entirely, of course, but I have no problem believing that he can.

Real Balrog. Real Wings.

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

And where is it written in stone that the Moria Balrog can't fly? This is worth another thread entirely, of course, but I have no problem believing that he can.

Presumably, if Balrogs could fly, they wouldn't be dying by falling off things/into things all the time.

Balrog in Moria: fell into the chasm when Gandalf broke the bridge of Khazad-dûm, and caught Gandalf with its flaming whip so he fell down also.

Glorfindel and the Balrog: they fought on a pinnacle of rock, as the Balrog (leading a band of Orcs) attacked those trying to escape the destruction of Gondolin. The Balrog fell backwards, grabbing Glorfindel's hair as it went, and both died falling into the abyss below.

Both Ecthelion and Gothmog (lord of Balrogs) fell into the Fountain of the King and drowned, both heavily wounded. This wasn't a fall from a great height, but I'm mentioning it anyway.

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

And where is it written in stone that the Moria Balrog can't fly? This is worth another thread entirely, of course, but I have no problem believing that he can.

Enjoy

Can Balrogs Fly?

Yes, I am perfectly prepared to get my arse whooped for bringing up the Balrog question again. HOWEVER - I am currently re-reading LotR, and just finished FotR. There's that scene right near the end where Legolas shoots down a large black creature in the sky (which we can assume was a...

thetolkien.forum

 

[TrackerOrc]

Enjoy

Can Balrogs Fly?

Yes, I am perfectly prepared to get my arse whooped for bringing up the Balrog question again. HOWEVER - I am currently re-reading LotR, and just finished FotR. There's that scene right near the end where Legolas shoots down a large black creature in the sky (which we can assume was a...

thetolkien.forum

Very enjoyable thread.

YayGollum almost being a voice of reason here!

And weren't the posts , shall we say, a lot more robust then...

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

Just for the record and a little off topic, here's a few more cool Balrog discussions I found while looking for the above thread.

The Great Balrog Debate

I think it's time we settled this once and for all. Do Balrogs have wings? Please, nobody bite my head off for this, but I think it had to happen. So do they or don't they? In tFotR, the Balrog certainly has wings, as it stretches across the Hall. Then we have all the other Balrogs mentioned...

thetolkien.forum

Durin's Bane or Whistling Past the Graveyard

We first hear it called "Durin's Bane" in LOTR when Gimli says: The Dwarves tell no tale; but even as mithril was the foundation of their wealth, so also it was their destruction: they delved too greedily and too deep, and disturbed that from which they fled, Durin's Bane. Of what they...

thetolkien.forum

 

[Elthir]

I don't know whether the Balrog can fly or not, and I really don't care; I do know that he has wings, as Tolkien wrote a perfectly simple sentence saying exactly that.

Tolkien himself illustrates that all you need is the introduction of something as being "like" wings in some way, and then you can follow up with the word wings.

JRRT Tolkien Tal-Elmar ". . . for the Sea-men spread great cloths like wings to catch the airs. . ."

later (same paragraph) ". . . and ever one of the accursed ships hath black wings."

later (same paragraph) "The foul wings of the Sea-men have not been seen in these waters for. . ."

Does that prove the Balrog case either way? No, but in my opinion it illustrates that the sentence you've been focusing on does not in itself make it clear that the Balrog actually has physical wings like that of a bat or a bird.

Or one could simply write stuff like this. . .

Leaves

Galadriel's lament: yéni únótime ve rámar aldaron!
long years numberless as the wings of trees!

Cloud

The Notion Club Papers: 'A great cloud coming up slowly out of the west was eating up the stars. As it approached it opened two vast sable wings spreading north and south.'

Sails

See above in this post

Darkness

See above in this thread.

Whatever the properties or nature of the shadow about the Balrog, it (the shadow) only need reach out like wings (or look like wings), to be referred to with the word wings.

And thus, it continues. . .

 

[Elthir]

Glorfindel and the Balrog: they fought on a pinnacle of rock, as the Balrog (leading a band of Orcs) attacked those trying to escape the destruction of Gondolin.

While I'm in the Moria-Balrog-Has-Temporary-Wings-Made-Of-Unlight camp, this Glorfindelian example is from an early, early tale in which a textual case can be made for non-flying Balrogs.

Even as far into The Lord of the Rings draft texts (thus, written well after the early Fall of Gondolin), the Balrog (at first) is clearly seen -- no wings and no shadow -- then Tolkien introduces its shadow, and in the final, printed text, we get the now infamous words that fuel the debate.

So, all I'm rambling about here is that I don't think this Balrog fall can tells us much, 'cause in my opinion this Balrog very arguably couldn't fly in any case. Although I'm with you that they could not fly later, I think one could challenge the Glorfindel-Balrog fall on different grounds, so to speak.

Or something.

 

[Elthir]

Hello Idril. No problem about the thread revival -- personally, I think a Balrog Wing discussion deserves 50 pages at least, but that's just me.

Agreed. And this triple post by me is on page 49, and thus posted for an obvious, if an admittedly possibly annoying, reason.

And you can't see it easily here,
but at the moment there's a cloud-shadow
about me, and it's shaped. . . well, kind of like
wings!

Ach! Still on 49!

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

Agreed. And this triple post by me is on page 49, and thus posted for an obvious, if an admittedly possibly annoying, reason.

And you can't see it easily here,
but at the moment there's a cloud-shadow
about me, and it's shaped. . . well, kind of like
wings!

Ach! Still on 49!

Are we on 50 yet?

Edit: No

 

[Elthir]

Howaboutnow?

Edit: awww. no.

 

[Radaghast]

If you want a cat or catlike creature with wings look no further than Toothless the Night Fury.

(Just trying to help get this thread to 50...)

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

If there's one thing Tolkien was ultra-fond of, it was ambiguity; he left sooo many things open to interpretation.

I come down on the "wings" side, for reasons I've given previously, but I guess it amounts to something like a Rorschach test for each reader.

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

he left sooo many things open to interpretation

Still on 49....

Also not to plug my own thread but...yes he did leave a lot of things and the unanswered mysteries are some of my favorite to discuss

The Mysteries of the Legendarium

So I don't know if there is a thread on this at all or not but I thought maybe we could just list as many of the mysteries of Tolkien's Legendarium as possible. This just gives us a thread to reference when looking for new things to read into in the Legendarium. I know a almost all of these...

thetolkien.forum