question about elronds council

[dr_thompson]

i was watching the extended version and in lord elronds council boromir goes for the ring. is the booming voice that comes in saurons? anyone know what sauron and gandalf are saying?

 

[e.Blackstar]

I haven't seen the extended recently enough to remember it, but if you mean the bit where everyone is reflected (with fire!) in the Ring, then that is just some random voiceover, and it's saying the ring-poem in the Black Speech: Ash naz gimbatul, ash naz... and all the rest of the poem that I can't remember by heart and can't copy down because I have no book with me at the moment. If that's not what you meant, then I can't help you.
*runs away*


ps-Have you ever learnt to use Capitilization?

 

[Thorondor_]

No such voiced in the book, nor is there a quarrel about who should go (all were sitting in silence, "with downcast eyes"). In the movie, I doubt the voice could have been Sauron's, since he couldn't interact with the ring from distance; the most likely scenario would be that it was the influence/magic of the ring at work.

 

[dr_thompson]

I dont see how it could have been the ring.The ring dosnt have a voice of its own does it? As i said, i have no idea what the voice is saying.The ground shakes, dark clouds roll in and a voice like sauron starts talking. Just curious is to whats happening, im pretty sure that never happened in the book.

 

[Corvis]

Huh, I thought it was Gandalf who said all those lines. I could be wrong though, because it's been a while since I've seen the extended edition.

 

[Arvedui]

I think that it was Gandalf. But if I recall correctly (it has been a long while since I saw the film, as I am trying to forget it...) Frodo hear the Ring saying the same words just before.
And yes, the Ring does have its own voice in the film.

 

[dr_thompson]

hmmm. yes gandalf does talk, but i always assumed it was some sort of counter spell to whomever was speaking.

 

[Arvedui]

I suggest that you read the book. Gandalf says the same in the film as in the book, although the setting is a bit different (there as well...)

 

[Wonko The Sane]

I suggest that you read the book. Gandalf says the same in the film as in the book, although the setting is a bit different (there as well...)

I assume that the bit the OP is referring to is when Boromir reaches out to take the ring.
Elrond says "Boromir!" and then we hear a deep voice saying "Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul."

This voice is Gandalf's, but interwoven with Gandalf's voice is another voice, deeper, saying the same thing, but a second before Gandalf says it. I think this is Gandalf's voice, deepened even more by the computer and then put on an echo to make it sound scarier and more atmospheric.

In the moments after the ring is first put on the table a deep voice murmurs things that cannot be discerned. This, I believe, is also for effect. I don't know if it's the ring's voice (as it does have a sort of voice in the movie) or if it's just background to make it seem scarier.

Then later on in the scene, when everyone is arguing about who will go to Mordor with the ring Frodo starts to hear the black speech again. And the whole of the council is reflected in the ring. The voice mounts in volume, drowning out the arguments of the council, and the council's reflection then bursts into flame.

This is, I believe, all in Frodo's head, perhaps an echo, or memory of what Gandalf had said, or the ring's power over him commanding him to stay with the ring, (or both) because as soon as he snaps out of it he says that he will take the ring.
I think PJ wanted to show that Frodo was being tormented/spoken to by the ring and that he almost didn't have a choice in whether or not he decided to go.

*shrugs*

So, Elhendi, yes, Gandalf does speak the verses that are written on the ring in the council of Elrond, but I think the OP was asking more about these scenes when nobody appears to be speaking, yet an evil-sounding voice can be heard.

And to Dr. Thompson: The voice is saying "Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul."

Which translated means "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, one ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

Does that answer things a bit?

 

[Arvedui]

I think that I stated that, or something to that effect...
Somewhere in the "extras" of the first part of the film, mr. Jackson states that The Ring was given its own voice.

 

[Wonko The Sane]

I think that I stated that, or something to that effect...
Somewhere in the "extras" of the first part of the film, mr. Jackson states that The Ring was given its own voice.

I know, I was further explaining your point, and clarifying what i felt the OP meant.
I personally think that giving the ring its own voice was a mistake, but that's just me.

 

[Arvedui]

It is not just you...

 

[Annaheru]

I would agree that the Ring shouldn't have a literal voice that can be heard. But I also believe that the Ring wasn't quite inanimate either. In the books we know that the Ring influences people, making its will known through suggestion (Frodo's numerous 'internal' debates, its curious habit of losing itself, etc)- the only way to show this influence in a movie is to make the thing actually talk. It's an attempt to show a concept from the books, but it really just another example of why a movie cannot accurately depict a book.

As for this particular scene, the book does state that when Gandalf spoke words from the Black Speech the sky went dark and his voice is described thus: " The change in the wizard's voice was astounding. Suddenly it became menacing, powerful, harsh as stone." This is the first scene you mentioned. After this, any voice was either for effect (personally I think the second instance of the voice is symbolic of the dividing affect the Ring has on the council-in the movie), or in Frodo's head, as others have already stated.

 

[dr_thompson]

so gandalf was making the voice ehh. For what purpose though, to scare Boromir and show the danger of the ring to the rest of the council?

 

[Wonko The Sane]

so gandalf was making the voice ehh. For what purpose though, to scare Boromir and show the danger of the ring to the rest of the council?

We know that Tolkien was a linguophile. And we also know that certain languages are believed to have power of their own. Take Hebrew for example, where each letter of the alphabet has its own meaning and power in a more metaphysical/religious sense than your basic a, b, c, d, etc.

Perhaps this is simply the way it sounds when one speaks the tongue of Mordor. Perhaps the Black Speech is so evil and is a language of such power that it distorts the voice and corrupts its sound and even speaking it creates changes in the atmosphere around the speaker.

And perhaps, in conjunction with the above, speaking it inside Rivendell caused the Elvish power of Rivendell to quake and grow angry. The changes in the sky, the element of air, might suggest that Elrond's ring was interacting, and reacting to the Black Speech being uttered in its domain?

*shrugs*

It is not just you...

Haha! I'm glad. It annoyed me and I hate being the only one with something to complain about.

 

[Annaheru]

I would agree, Tolkien said somewhere that Black Speach (which is actually more closely related to Valarin than Quenya or Sindarin) had an extremely harsh sound- atleast to elves. I would guess that very action of producing those sounds would change one's voice harmonics. Also note what Elrond said right afterwards about no one ever uttering words in that tongue in Imladris before. More specifically, those are the same words Sauron uttered when he bound the Elven rings to his own. We also know that in ME language has a great power over matter (the world was conceptually sung into existence after all), so those specific words, symbolizing the dominance of the one Ring, probably disrupted the power of Vilya.

 

[Wonko The Sane]

I would agree, Tolkien said somewhere that Black Speach (which is actually more closely related to Valarin than Quenya or Sindarin) had an extremely harsh sound- atleast to elves. I would guess that very action of producing those sounds would change one's voice harmonics. Also note what Elrond said right afterwards about no one ever uttering words in that tongue in Imladris before. More specifically, those are the same words Sauron uttered when he bound the Elven rings to his own. We also know that in ME language has a great power over matter (the world was conceptually sung into existence after all), so those specific words, symbolizing the dominance of the one Ring, probably disrupted the power of Vilya.

I love it when people agree with me!

Also, I found the following quote to show that Gandalf had power that would change his voice regardless of what language he was speaking.
This is from the bit where the wargs attack.

...High in the air he tossed the blazing brand. It flared with a sudden white radiance like lightning; and his voice rolled like thunder.
'Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!'...

I'm pretty sure he doesn't talk like that all the time.

 

[Thorondor_]

Also, I found the following quote to show that Gandalf had power that would change his voice regardless of what language he was speaking.

And let us not forget the way he tricked the three trolls by impersonating their voices .