I think that is a strong statement about how Tolkien felt about Christianity; there is a great deal more in the letter, but I am not certain that Dave would be too happy about my inflaming a thread and then departing for several more months: it will suffice to show that Tolkien wrote these words, and that there is strong evidence in many other places that he really believed them.You speak of ‘sagging faith’... In the last resort faith is an act of will, inspired by love. Our love may be chilled and our will eroded by the spectacle of the shortcomings, folly, and even sins of the Church and its ministers, but I do not think that one who has once had faith goes back over the line for these reasons (least of all anyone with any historical knowledge). ... The temptation to ‘unbelief’ (which really means rejection of Our Lord and His claims) is always there within us.
…
It takes a fantastic will to unbelief to suppose that Jesus never really ‘happened’, and more to suppose that he did not say the things recorded of him
A draft Letter 153 To Peter Hastings (“manager of … a Catholic bookshop in Oxford”), dated September 1954 (pp-187-196), has something more.The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like ‘religion’, to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.
to which is added a long footnote (pp 193–194)The immediate ‘authorities’ are the Valar (the Powers or Authorities): the ‘gods’…
In another missive to Murray, Letter 156, dated Thursday 4 November 1954 (pp 200-207), concerning religion within the contact of the narrative, he wrote,There are thus no temples or ‘churches’ … among ‘good’ peoples. They had little or no ‘religion’ in the sense of worship. For help they may call on a Vala (as Elbereth), as a Catholic might on a Saint… I do not think Hobbits practiced any form of worship or prayer (unless through exceptional contact with Elves). The Númenóreans … were pure monotheists. But there was no temple in Númenor (until Sauron introduced the cult of Morgoth). The top of … Meneltarma … was dedicated to Eru…, and there … God was … praised… Among the … remnants of the Faithful … religion … seems to have played small part; though a glimpse … is … in Faramir’s remark on ‘grace at meat’…
In fact, whenever “organized” religion appears in LOTR, it seems almost always associated with corrupted practice and belief, and is, as far as I can tell, always associated with Morgoth, his servant Sauron, or Sauron’s servant the Witch King.The High Elves ... had no 'religion' (or religious practices...) for those had been in the hands of the gods [noparse][[/noparse]i.e., Valar[noparse]][/noparse], praising and adoring Eru 'the One' ... on the Mt. of Aman.
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The Númenóreans [noparse][[/noparse]were[noparse]][/noparse] monotheists ... like the Jews ... with only one physical centre of 'worship': the summit of the mountain Meneltarma...; [noparse][[/noparse]They[noparse]][/noparse] had no building and no temple, as all such things had evil associations. But they 'fell' again...
Sauron ... got Ar-Pharazôn’s mind under his ... control, and ... corrupted many of the Númenóreans, destroyed the conception of Eru, now represented as a mere figment of the Valar ..., and substituted a Satanist religion with a large temple [noparse][[/noparse]for[noparse]][/noparse] the worship of [noparse][[/noparse]Morgoth[noparse]][/noparse].
This quotation is just above the lovely sketch of a Númenórean king with an Egyptian-style crown on p 281, where there is a footnote to this citation that reads,The Númenóreans ... were Hebraic and even more puritan ... there is practically no overt ‘religion’, or rather religious acts or places or ceremonies among the ‘good’ or anti-Sauron peoples in The Lord of the Rings.
A draft letter 297 in August 1967 (pp 379–387) is unfortunately edited. The published portion ends with the statement,Almost the only vestige of ‘religion’ is seen on II pp. 284–5 [noparse][[/noparse]in Tolkien’s edition of LOTR at the time[noparse]][/noparse] in the ‘Grace before Meat’. [noparse][[/noparse]Númenórean[noparse]][/noparse] theology is reduced to ‘that which is beyond Elvenhome and ever will be’...
followed by the editorial comment,We are in a time when the One God, Eru, is known to exist by the wise, but is not approachable save by or through the Valar, though He is still remembered in (unspoken) prayer by those of Númenórean descent.
which is, of course, what we would like to know.The text ends with a brief discussion of Númenórean religion.
Anyone interested in Finrod and Andreth (which casts interesting light on man's mortality being a 'gift of Illuvatar') can hop across the forum to here for more.Finally, there is a long discussion that touches upon religion, and seems to be a deliberate foreshadowing of a Messiah, that appears in Morgoth’s Ring in Part 4, “Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth” (translated, “Debate of Finrod and Andreth”), but that is simply outside the scope of this thread, I think; And now, I really must return to the salt mines of Núrnen…
Lewis was a great writer, but how "Well" he did that is lmited to me by my, as a Christian, not agreeing even remotly with his theology. I've been working on a Ficitonal Monotheist Bible Inspired cosmology, but mine is more Greek inspired rather then English like Tolkien and Lewis.I wouldn't exactly call the Vala gods but they serve as holy beings and specific groups revere certain Vala more than others. Eru also is godlike without necessarily being worshipped as godlike, which is interesting.
I think Tolkien said somewhere that he purposefully avoided religion in his writings because he didn't want to try and replace his existing religion or create an allegory for it, which really are the only two choices if you add a religion to the fantasy world: make up a religion (upon which some person somewhere will start practicing it if you reach any level of fame . . . like Jedi knights) or you can do what Lewis did and take an existing religion and make a spiritual point. This point does not have to necessarily build up an existing religion, either. Pullman's work uses a very thinly veiled Catholic/Christian style church and proceeds to bring out the worst in it to turn people off from organized religion.
I have tried to do what Lewis did in my work, as a Christian writer, but I find no one does it as well as him, so generally I do what Tolkien does: provide a sense of right and wrong and an innately good creator but avoid the greater details of religion. Unless I've based it in the real world.
We do see Devil-Worship in the villains and we see people criticized for attempting to hold themselves as gods (Isn't that one theory with the "blue wizards").
But rambling aside, I think it all falls back on Tolkien not wanting to write in a religion.
Lewis was a great writer, but how "Well" he did that is lmited to me by my, as a Christian, not agreeing even remotly with his theology.
Because my understanding is is not compatible with a Calvinist like Lewis.
It's majorly off topic too. Has moderator eyes on you all. . .like kitty eyes, cute, batting kitty eyes that BURN!
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