Bard the Bowman
🤡 - Banned User
- Joined
- May 23, 2011
- Messages
- 418
Quenta Silmarillion; Of The Voyage Of Earendil & The War Of Wrath: 'The Balrogs were destroyed, save for some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inacessable at the roots of the earth.'
It should be noted that 'some few' is a really poor choice of words, most likely added by Guy Kay and/or Christopher Tolkien for the published Silmarillion.
HoME states that JRRT Tolkien had determined that the likely total of Balrogs left when Morgoth returned from exile with the Silmarils was 'three or seven'.....
'Wherefore each embassy came with greater force than was agreed, but Morgoth sent the greater, and they were Balrogs. Maidros was ambushed...' Of The Siege of Angband (Quenta Silmarillion) [] '... but Morgoth sent the more, and there were Balrogs.' Of The Return of the Noldor (The Silmarillion)
'Sauron came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower, with a host of Balrogs.' Of the Ruin of Beleriand And the Fall of Fingolfin (Quenta Silmarillion) [] '... named Gorthaur, came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower upon Tol Sirion.' Of The Ruin Of Beleriand (The Silmarillion)
'There came wolves and serpents, and there came Balrogs one thousand,...' Of the Fourth Battle: Nírnaith Arnediad (Quenta Silmarillion) [] 'There came wolves and wolfriders, and there came Balrogs, and dragons...' Of The Fifth Battle (The Silmarillion)
Therefore, it must be seven. Why? Gothmog & Ecthelien killed each other; minus one.... Glorfindel and another Balrog; minus two....
If there is only three, with Durin's Bane, that leaves zero, and the above quote says 'the Blarogs were ALL destroyed, save SOME FEW.."
Within the assumption that 'at most 7' certainly was Tolkien's latest and 'final' idea (the remaining references to very many Balrogs still awaiting correction, in theory)...
... then I think 'some few' is just a remnant of an old idea (given that we know it was written when Balrogs 'one thousand' were created by Morgoth). So in my opinion, I don't think one necessarily needs to factor this phrasing in. Ecthelion killed one, Glorfindel another -- that leaves five at the War of Wrath, perhaps four of which were slain at this time.
Let me just clear some things up. Dain actually did see Durin's Bane. Dain says to Thrain, "Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still; Durin's Bane".
We don't know where the other (at least) two Balrog's are hanging out. Perhaps in the Blue Mountains. Mount Gundabad? Who knows?
Nardor was the realm in the far south founded by Maglor leading the surving Numenoreans to safety. However, you may be on to something there Erestor. I wouldn't doubt that there was a Balrog or two taking part in Sauron's assault on Nardor.
Darth Bane was the name of a Sith Lord, in an entirely different universe.
Feanor was the mightiest by far, and he wasn't even fighting Gothmog until Gothmog came up and smote him. So I think we can assume that at least 1 Balrog died by the hand of Feanor.
Don't you mean "Darth's Bane," the Balrog that killed King Darth of Nardor? XD3. I think everybody knows 'Darth Bane' was a joke. At least if they have a sense of humor. ;*)
Again, I think at least 20 Balrogs existed because of the phrase, "a few". They are spoken of as if the majority perished and a small portion escaped. That would not be the case if 2 escaped and 3 died. The wording wouldn't match it.
'(...) Feanor was the greatest of the Noldor in anything; speed, power, might, skill, anything you can think of. Yes, greater than the heroic Balrog slayers Ecthelion and Glorfindel.'
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