• Welcome to The Tolkien Forum! Connect with fellow Tolkien enthusiasts and join a community that is over two decades old, and still going strong. We look forward to meeting you.  Register

Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien

I've shown this to one of my friends before, but here's a delightful conversation I had with the oh-so-infallible ChatGPT. (I am User if this is not obvious.)

 
I've shown this to one of my friends before, but here's a delightful conversation I had with the oh-so-infallible ChatGPT. (I am User if this is not obvious.)
Upon receiving such blather, my question to the poster would be
"What have you been
a) drinking
b) smoking
c) snorting
d) injecting
and don't try to tell me that any of the last three were legal!"
😈
 
It's enough to put the reader in a quantum superposition of laughing and crying.
That would be the stuff going back to a thought experiment by Erwin Schödinger (possibly of special interest to @Elthir 😁 ).
I wonder if Werner Heisenberg would come up with some thoughts about a"i", were he still alive today. 😈
 
This one sounds like an AI generated question.... the mighty "mechanical" moron took a bucket of words relating to discussions about Eru, sloshed it around a bit, and dumped it out as what we see here.
JRRT did rewrites of two northern mythological topics, "The Story of Kullervo" from the Finnish Kalevala while still a student at Oxford, and of the Völsunga Saga and the Saga of Gudrun (and Sigurd) from his time as a professor at Oxford - about the early 1930's is Christopher Tolkien's guess.
What he was adamant about was that his Middle-earth legendarium was in no way a "rewrite" of biblical material. As I noticed in several letters, having just finished reading my 2023 expanded edition of Humphrey Carpenter's "Letters". That a"i" needs to fill its bucket (bathtub, swimming pool, lake, ocean) with a lot more stuff before sloshing produces more than slush.
 
The person who asked the question might be interested to know that Tolkien, at one point in his life, did pen Finrod recounting a vision of Arda Remade (and Finrod says of the Elves]: ". . . and there walk, maybe, with the Children of Men, their deliverers, and sing. . ."

Next, Andreth reveals to Felagund the Old Hope, and that those of the Old Hope say that the One will somehow himself enter Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end.

Tolkien himself comments [section on Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth, Morgoth's Ring]: "Since Finrod had already guessed that the redemptive function was originally specially assigned to Men, he probably proceeded to the expectation that "the coming of Eru", if it took place, would be specially and primarily concerned with Men: that is to an imaginative guess or vision that Eru would come incarnated in human form. This however, does not appear in the Athrabeth."

That said, see Isolated Slip C with respect to Tolkien's own query regarding "a parody of Christianity", as well as Christopher Tolkien's excellent commentary (presenting Tolkienian texts) that follows, which concerns the legend "of the Fall" -- including a referrence to the "astonishing" [CJRT] conception of the Great Hope of Men. Christopher Tolkien ends this section with:

"But this surely is not parody, nor even parallel, but the extension -- if only represented as
a vision, hope, or prophecy -- of the "theology" of Arda into specifically, and of course centrally, Christian belief; and a manifest challenge to my father's view in his letter of 1951
on the necessary limitations of the expression of "moral and religious truth (or error)" in a "Secondary World"
.
Christopher Tolkien, commentary, Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth, Morgoth's Ring

Just sayin' that much

Much more could be said of this matter in general. "Would" Tolkien have even included something like the Old Hope (or "more"), in a now never-to-be realized "final" Tolkien-ratified-for-publication form of the Athrabeth (or any other text)?

I wonder.

And I nap.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…