H
Sorry, I don't feel the need to demonstrate anything
Originally posted by Harad
Arwen, daughter of Elrond, is so inferior, perhaps being a woman, that she could not find Aragorn in the wilderness, or certainly with lower probability than Elronds sons or the wilderness-savvy Glorfindel. She cant fight, she cant use deception, and she cant find her way in the wilderness.
These "defenders" of JRRT want the character of Arwen to be an incompetent boob, only able to sit quietly at home, and after being summmoned, meekly be wed to Aragorn. Exactly who is doing injustice to a JRRT character? It isnt PJ.
This is incorrect.And by the way, Glorfindel did not combat it with power. He merely did the same that Aragorn himself did at Weathertop. He used fire against the riders, in this case to drive them to the river.
ARWEN DIDN'T DO THESE THINGS!!!
Originally posted by Harad
in the book.
And?
Your point is?
That the film isnt a shot for shot rendering of the book?
I'll alert the media.
Any film that employs the technique of a composite character will have this "failing."
The book also doesnt start with Galadriel saying "The World Has Changed..."
GALADRIEL DOESNT DO THIS THING!
So?
You dont like this, you dont like Arwen, you dont like the film. That is your right. And its abundantly clear.
When you mistakenly conclude that the film is not a faithful ADAPTATION of JRRT thats where you stray into Unsupportedville.
1) My point is, is that you make no sense trying to justify Arwen's distortion by trying to make it fit JRR
Originally posted by Harad
What I say is: it IS in the spirit of the book, it could have been in one of the many JRRT rewrites, since it is consistent with his characters.
now...your only weak fallback: She's not in the book (I can almost hear the whine.)
This is the movie: its different from the book.
BTW remember that in the book Arwen's mother was fatally injured in an Orc ambush? Since Arwen is never given any ACTION role by JRRT, can't you imagine that she in fact did things like travel? And that she would travel armed in ME, if nothing else to try to avoid her mother's fate? Can you use your imagination? Can PJ use his?
[My emphasis - VoK]Originally posted by Thorin
What Harad still doesn't seem to accept or grasp is that Arwen is ARWEN! She should stay the Arwen that Tolkien intended. Whether Glorfindel was a "weak" character doesn't change the fact that Arwen (of all of Tolkien's characters) should not have been made to do the things that she did, in the place that she did, in the time that she did.
The only reason why that was done was for the audience to be introduced to Arwen early....The rest was typical "Hollywood" action purposes.
PJ could have created scenes to introduce Arwen to the people and still made her a viable character that stayed true to Tolkien.
It was blasphemed and until Harad can finally admit that (Whether that was a smart cinematic move or that he really liked it is beside the point)
Until Harad stops arguing like JRR meant her to do those things it is impossible to argue with him.
Harad, you say it is a mistake to conclude that the movie is not a faithful adaptation when that very determination is one purely of opinion. You also either completely missed my earlier points or choose not to address them. I personally have no problem with things that could have happened in the book but were not elucidated by Tolkien. The could easily include Galadriel starting the movie with "The World has Changed..." Merry and Pippin blowing themselves in fireworks (not in book but okay). Tom Bombadil out (okay because of time constraints). Hobbits getting swords from Aragorn (okay). All these things were changed for a reason of making the movie more easily understood by the audience and for the sake of time. Arwen at the Fords is an entirely different matter. It effects the dynamics of the characters much more significantly (to me... not to you.)Originally posted by Harad
in the book.
And?
Your point is?
That the film isnt a shot for shot rendering of the book?
I'll alert the media.
Any film that employs the technique of a composite character will have this "failing."
The book also doesnt start with Galadriel saying "The World Has Changed..."
GALADRIEL DOESNT DO THIS THING!
So?
You dont like this, you dont like Arwen, you dont like the film. That is your right. And its abundantly clear.
When you mistakenly conclude that the film is not a faithful ADAPTATION of JRRT thats where you stray into Unsupportedville.
Originally posted by Variag of Khand
I wasn't trying to be offensive or anything.At worst perhaps I was having a little harmless fun at your expense.
Blasphemy is a term of some strength, considering we are talking about a work of fiction. Your language often sounds as though you believe Lord of the Rings is a historical or religious text.
She may not be the Arwen of the book, but how can you really tell? So little is written of her. In all that time in Lorien she could have been doing her stint of guard's duty with Haldir & co. Its not said, but she is only ever portrayed as dancing, falling in love, making a banner, feasting, and travelling. Your guess is as good as mine about what she did for the other 99.99% of her life.
If there are some notes anywhere in which Tolkien makes some specific comments on Noldorin society, and the role of their women-folk, that would at least strengthen your case.C'mon sock it to me!!!
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