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The 🧙Blue Wizards Demystified: New Channel Video

Council_of_Gondor

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Feb 19, 2021
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I recently created a new YouTube Channel with the lore of Middle-Earth and re-edited one of my older videos about the Blue Wizards. A lot of people tend to mix together the early and later writings about them, which contradict each other, so if you want to avoid that watch the video. At the end is featured the lastest news we have about the wizards which comes from The Nature of Middle-Earth book that released in 2021.

Thank you guys! If you have any questions don't hesitate to leave a comment!
 
I recently created a new YouTube Channel with the lore of Middle-Earth and re-edited one of my older videos about the Blue Wizards. A lot of people tend to mix together the early and later writings about them, which contradict each other, so if you want to avoid that watch the video. At the end is featured the lastest news we have about the wizards which comes from The Nature of Middle-Earth book that released in 2021.

Thank you guys! If you have any questions don't hesitate to leave a comment!

I created my channel to discuss mostly Tolkien and other lesser fantasy fiction so as to introduce people to Suikoden, Prydainw, Dragonlance on top of exploring Tolkien.
Thanks so much for posting this, will definitely take a look at this good-sir! Not trying to spam or troll you, I know it seems like it. Are you familiar with MenoftheWest? I really like his and GirlNextGondor's channels!

In case you're curious about my channel here's the main Tolkien podcast we do, but we also do some Tolkien Book-Clubs podcast videos!
 
While I realize some simplification might be helpful in a presentation like this, in my opinion you're simplifying things a bit with respect to "early" and "late" versions -- especially concerning the very late text published in Unfinished Tales (see below), according to which, in my opinion anyway, it's at least arguable that all five wizards arrive at generally the same time -- agreeing with the implication from
The Lord of the Rings (Third Age).

Also there are no blue wizards :) see 1958

_________________________

1954 Istari essay (Unfinished Tales): number of order unknown -- two wizards came clad in Sea-blue, little known of them -- no names in the West save Ithryn Luin "the Blue Wizards" -- passed into East with Saruman but never returned -- whether remained in the East pursuing their purpose, or perished, or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, is not known.

The Lord of the Rings 1954-55

In The Lord of the Rings the Istari were said to have appeared in Middle-earth when maybe a thousand years of the Third Age had passed. The Istari need not have arrived all together, on the same exact ship I mean, but I think the implication is that they came in this general time at least -- this will be notable compared to a very late idea Tolkien was at least thinking about.

A hard to date, brief and hasty sketch

Quenya names appear, Alatar and Pallando -- this dates from sometime after the completion of The Lord of the Rings.

An alliterative verse

This verse mentions of the five that came from a far country, only one retuned.

1958 letter 211

Tolkien -- doesn't know colours (doubts they had distinctive colours) -- doesn't know anything clearly about the "other two" -- thinks they went to distant land, fears they failed, and suspects they were founders or beginners or secret cults and magic traditions outlasting Sauron's fall.

A late text

Tolkien here muses on the success of the other two: "The "other two" came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age" (and it was said that the reincarnated Glorfindel probably came to Middle-earth in SA 1600). And... [they] "... must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West."

According to this late note their names are Morinehtar and Romestamo (or Rome(n)star).

another late note

"no names are recorded for the two wizards"

yet another late text similarly dated very late (probably 1972)...

"Saruman is said (e.g. by Gandalf himself) to have been the chief of the Istari -- that is, higher in Valinórean stature than the others. Gandalf was evidently the next in order. Radagast is presented as a person of much less power and wisdom. Of the other two nothing is said in published work save the reference to the five wizards in the altercation between Gandalf and Saruman. Now these Maiar were sent by the Valar at a crucial moment in the history of Middle-earth to enhance the resistance of the Elves of the West, waning in power, and of the uncorrupted Men of the West, greatly outnumbered by those of the East and South." (published in Unfinished Tales)

It is difficult to know if this note came before, or after, these other two late notes! but again, in my opinion this one seems to state that all the Istari in question came at generally the same time (at a crucial moment), rather than two wizards coming in SA 1600 -- well before Gandalf!

This late text is actually on the reverse side of the "Morinehtar/Romestamo text", but as it was more legible, Christopher Tolkien was able to present it in Unfinished Tales, only later working out what was written on the other side.
 
While I realize some simplification might be helpful in a presentation like this, in my opinion you're simplifying things a bit with respect to "early" and "late" versions -- especially concerning the very late text published in Unfinished Tales (see below), according to which, in my opinion anyway, it's at least arguable that all five wizards arrive at generally the same time -- agreeing with the implication from
The Lord of the Rings (Third Age).

Also there are no blue wizards :) see 1958

_________________________

1954 Istari essay (Unfinished Tales): number of order unknown -- two wizards came clad in Sea-blue, little known of them -- no names in the West save Ithryn Luin "the Blue Wizards" -- passed into East with Saruman but never returned -- whether remained in the East pursuing their purpose, or perished, or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, is not known.

The Lord of the Rings 1954-55

In The Lord of the Rings the Istari were said to have appeared in Middle-earth when maybe a thousand years of the Third Age had passed. The Istari need not have arrived all together, on the same exact ship I mean, but I think the implication is that they came in this general time at least -- this will be notable compared to a very late idea Tolkien was at least thinking about.

A hard to date, brief and hasty sketch

Quenya names appear, Alatar and Pallando -- this dates from sometime after the completion of The Lord of the Rings.

An alliterative verse

This verse mentions of the five that came from a far country, only one retuned.

1958 letter 211

Tolkien -- doesn't know colours (doubts they had distinctive colours) -- doesn't know anything clearly about the "other two" -- thinks they went to distant land, fears they failed, and suspects they were founders or beginners or secret cults and magic traditions outlasting Sauron's fall.

A late text

Tolkien here muses on the success of the other two: "The "other two" came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age" (and it was said that the reincarnated Glorfindel probably came to Middle-earth in SA 1600). And... [they] "... must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West."

According to this late note their names are Morinehtar and Romestamo (or Rome(n)star).

another late note

"no names are recorded for the two wizards"

yet another late text similarly dated very late (probably 1972)...

"Saruman is said (e.g. by Gandalf himself) to have been the chief of the Istari -- that is, higher in Valinórean stature than the others. Gandalf was evidently the next in order. Radagast is presented as a person of much less power and wisdom. Of the other two nothing is said in published work save the reference to the five wizards in the altercation between Gandalf and Saruman. Now these Maiar were sent by the Valar at a crucial moment in the history of Middle-earth to enhance the resistance of the Elves of the West, waning in power, and of the uncorrupted Men of the West, greatly outnumbered by those of the East and South." (published in Unfinished Tales)

It is difficult to know if this note came before, or after, these other two late notes! but again, in my opinion this one seems to state that all the Istari in question came at generally the same time (at a crucial moment), rather than two wizards coming in SA 1600 -- well before Gandalf!

This late text is actually on the reverse side of the "Morinehtar/Romestamo text", but as it was more legible, Christopher Tolkien was able to present it in Unfinished Tales, only later working out what was written on the other side.
Great reply!
Yeah sometimes things need to be simplified especially if I'm meant to tell a story to the viewers. and most people know them as the blue wizards, there's even a quote by Gandalf in The hobbit films, so even if Tolkien later wanted different names for them, it's the ones that stuck and people remember and search for :p

But Yeah they could very well have arrived with the others. I'm not saying one version is more accurate than the other, I'm just trying to tell their story, so people get an idea what these two wizards did (or might have done).

You seem to know a lot about the lore. I have a small discord server with lore experts that help out with future episodes, let me know if you want to be part of it. There's lots of interesting topics being discussed and theorized about! ☺️
 
By the way, sorry if I sound pedantic . . . it's only because I'm being pedantic :)
 
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You seem to know a lot about the lore. I have a small discord server with lore experts that help out with future episodes, let me know if you want to be part of it. There's lots of interesting topics being discussed and theorized about! ☺️
Whatever you do, don't ask him about Galadriel! :oops:

Just kidding -- go ahead. I dare ya!
galadriel-lotr.gif
 
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