The destruction of Barad-dûr

[Anárion]

Alright, Sauron was no idiot. When trying to take over Middle Earth, he made this immsensely large, oversized tower in which he lived. So, natrually,(sp? oh well) he would make it out of the strongest substance he could find. So, why didnt he use unbreakable stone like used to make the tower of Orthanc?
In TTT, the Ents pounded and pounded on the thing, and it didnt even make a scratch, but they hurt their hands.

So, my question is, how can a few men and elves destroy
Barad-dûr? Sauron HAD to have made it out of unbreakable rock, like that one.

And, I know someone is going to say that when Sauron was thrown down, and the Ring taken from him, the foundations crumbled, or something like that. But, the Ring was not destroyed, so Barad-dûr would not have fallen down THAT fast...would it?

Which leads me to another question, if Sauron only lost the Ring from his finger, why didnt he just say "Ouch" and then kill Isildur? He only got his hand cut off! Hes a Dark Lord for Pete's sake! Cmon! Hes not that much of a pansy!

 

[Celebthôl]

Because Orthanc was made out of the living rock and i believe that it had certain spells on it.
Barad-dúr was not, it would have taken a mountain...

The foundations were never destroyed....they failed in this (the goodies).

 

[Glomund]

First, the tower of Orthanc was not unbreakable, it was just very very strong. It was built by the Numenoreans at the hieght of their power, like the walls of Minas Tirith. I would assume that Barad-Dur was much the same, except for the foundations, and if people can build something they can tear it apart, as they did to most of Barad-Dur after the war of the last alliance. The Ents could not damage Orthanc cause they could not "rend the very earth on which it stood". I know that the quote is about the walls of the city, but if they were built the same, they had the same strengths.
In regards to Sauron killing Isildur after he lost his finger, I think you have a case of movie creep. In the books, Isildur cuts the ring from Saurons hand after he had been overthrown by Elendil and Gil-Galad as they died, not in a desperate defensive move by Isildur. Sauron was effectivly dead at that time, his spirit had been forced out of his physical body, and needed time to recover, so he could not have said ouch and kept killing, since it took some 1100 years before Sauron tried a comeback.

 

[GuardianRanger]

Good answer Glomund. I hate "movie creep." While I thoroughly enjoyed the movies, I don't like how some of the images spill over into the books when I'm re-reading something. Inevitible, I guess; and the price I pay for enjoying the movies so much. But still annoying.

 

[BlackCaptain]

I believe, Anàrion, that when Sauron was overthrown during the Last Alliance, the foundations were destroyed, destroying the Tower. I believe Sauron re-established the foundations when he returned from Dol Goldur, and rebuilt the tower.

As for the part with Isildur and the Ring and the hand and all, I think it's a question of your power source.... Sauron was only surviving when he was besieged thanks to the Ring. All of his armies (most of them anyways) were destroyed, and all of his power was put into the Ring I think... er.... Oh it's probably just a fairy-tale element that Tolkien put to make the relationship between the Ring and Sauron greater

 

[Tar-Elenion]

The foundations of Barad-dur survived the Last Alliance, they could only be destroyed when the One Ring was destroyed.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Ehh I knew it was too good to be true... Oh well. I guess they just needed alot of High Elves to destroy the magic part that makes the tower so strong...

 

[Anárion]

Originally posted by Glomund
In regards to Sauron killing Isildur after he lost his finger, I think you have a case of movie creep.

Arrg! Do not! Its just that The Silmarillion explains it in very little detail, and I have yet to find a book about the Last Alliance and the aftermath (only UT comes close, and thats only the aftermath)
Thanks for the help however, it was very...well...helpful. I suppose that anything that the Númenóreans built would be much greater then anything the Orcs built, even if it WAS overseen by Sauron

 

[Glomund]

It is explained in TFotR, when Elrond says at the council,

I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-Galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown and Isildur cut the ring from his hand

so that's why I think Sauron was "dead" when the One was taken.
And in TTT when Gollum and Frodo are discussing the other way into Mordor, Frodo says,It was Isildur who cut off the finger of the enemy. To which Gollum replies

Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough

So that shows only one was cut off, not three or four like they showed in the movie, thats part of why I saw movie creep Anarion, in your first post you said Sauron only lost his hand, so I (perhaps wrongly ) assumed you were combining the book and movie.
Lastly to the foundations of the Barad-Dur,they were made with the power of the Ring, and could not be destroyed while it existed, as Elrond also says in his council, but the appendix brings up a problem, in the tale of years, it says the Barad-Dur was begun in the year 1000 S.A. but the Ring was not forged until 1600 S.A., and I doubt Sauron built his tower from the roof down, so how could the foundations be laid using the power of the Ring
I don't know the HoME books well enough yet to know where to begin to look to see if Tolkien was trying to address this issue, or even had known of it, although, with all the other, smaller inconsistancied he did notice, I imagine he did try to correct it, and I will give it a try when I am able.

 

[Anárion]

Interesting concept. It seems that Barad-dur would only be just a regular tower then I suppose.
You said that Barad-dur was constructed in 1000 S.A. and the Ring was not forged until 1600 S.A.
Well, in the Encyclopedia of Arda, it states that Barad-dur took 600 years to build the first time around. So prehaps Sauron wanted to build Barad-dur first, then forged the Ring, which strengthened the foundations to a very strong...something.
I dont know what Im talking about. I could be right, but this is only a poorly estimated guess. I do not know of such things in great detail, ask someone whos smart

 

[Wolfshead]

I spotted that a while ago as well - he started building the tower before he forged the Ring. Yet the Ring was used to build the foundations. Maybe he built the rest, and then the foundations?

 

[Anárion]

Well, maybe he built it lieing down as in, he built it on its side, then he forge the Ring, then he had, oh, say about a million orcs along with a couple thousand giants, pick it up, and put it on its foundations! I like this idea.