The Eighth Palantiri!

[Úlairi]

The Palantiri (the seven seeing stones) were a gift of the Valar to the men of Numenor. The Palantiri are in both The Silmarillion and LOTR. There were seven Palantiri but I have just finished The Silmarillion and I have discivered that there is an eighth Palantiri as some of you may already know. It is known as the 'Masterstone' or the Master of the Palantiri. It's dwelling place is in Valinor. Now we all know that the Valar are the 'Masters of Arda' so they can see all things that are going on. They knew Sauron was planning to take over Middle-Earth. What exactly would be the use of the stone if the Valar have no need of it? Also, is it possible then (because the stones could connect themselves to one another as it states in The Silmarillion) for one of the left over stones such as Saruman's or Denethor's to find the Masterstone and actually look into Valinor itself?

 

[Elanor2]

I think you are mistaken. If I remember correctly, the Masterstone was one of the seven, the one that Elendil kept for imself in Annuminas and was destroyed when the city was invaded by the Nazgul of Angmar.

There was one Palatir though that Elendil used to look back to the sea and, sometimes, he could see a bit of the Blessed Realm. That was the one in the White Towers an the Grey Havens, and it was so fixed in that direction that it could not be used for anything else. The third palatir of Elendil was in Weathertop (I think) until it was also destroyed.

The remaining for were used by Isildur and Anarion in the shouth. I think they were one in Orthanc, one in Minas Arnor (Minas Thirit), one in Minas Ithil (Minas Morgul) and one in the citadel in the middle of the river (I forgot the name right now). The last one was also destroyed.

I do not remember any Palantir in Aman, but I might be mistaken. Can you indicate the quotes for this?

Regards. Elanor2

 

[Tar-Steve]

Ulairi is correct. There is a reference in The Sil to a Master-stone that is not one of the seven. It was not in Valinor but in Tol Eressea (the island near Valinor where I believe some Teleri lived). I believe the stones were made by elves (Feanor?), not the Vala.

As far as I know, that is the only reference to the "master stone" and JRRT never elaborated on it.

El2,
You're thinking of the chief of the Palantiri kept in Osgiliath (which WAS lost when the Nazgul attacked the city.)

 

[Gothmog]

The palantiri were given by the Elves of Tol Eressea to the faithful of Numenor

These stones were gifts of the Eldar to Amandil, father of Elendil, for the comfort of the Faithful on Numnor in their dark days, when the Elves might come no longer to that land under the shadow of Sauron.

The Palantiri were made by Feanor and the Masterstone was in Eressea.

 

[Walter]

The seven "Seeing Stones" (Palantiri)

Here is what I collected so far about what happened with the Palantiri during the 3rd age (anybody please correct me where I am wrong):

Elendil's three stones were in M-E originally placed in Emyn Beraid (Elostirion, the highest tower of the Tower Hills), Amon Sûl (Weathertop) and in the Sunset Tower of Annúminas (the Capitol of Arnor). Isildur's and Anárion's four stones were placed in Minas Ithil (later called Minas Morgul), Minas Anor (later called Minas Tirith), in Osgiliath and in Orthanc (the tower of Isengard).

The Palantir of Osgiliath was lost 1437 during the Kin-strife.

The stones of Amon Sûl and Annúminas were lost 1975 due to Arvedui's shipwreck.

The Ithil-stone was seized by Sauron 2002 - during the sack of Minas Ithil - and most probably perished in Barad-dûr at the end of the War of the Ring.

The stone of Emyn Beraid - the one that was always looking west - was maintained by the Eldar after Elendil's death and finally taken back to Valinor on the white ship.

The Anor-stone - used by Denethor II before or during the War of the Ring - remained in the possession of King Elessar.

The Orthanc-stone fell 2759 - casually, how I think - into the hands of Saruman when he got - or maybe better: occupied - Isengard and Orthanc, was then "given to" - or better: thrown at Gandalf - and then remained also in the possession of Elessar.

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There is also an eight stone - the "Masterstone" - that remained in Eressar mentioned - as has been stated in previous postings, but unfortunately I haven't found out more about this one so far...

 

[Tar-Steve]

I believe the Anor-stone was rendered useless, showing only a vision of burning hands afterwards. Anybody agree/disagree?

 

[Snaga]

LotR suggests that you could only see Denethor's burning hands unless you had a strong enough will to control the stone. I wonder if it got used by the Telcontars? Obviously they had the Orthanc stone and probably didn't need it much.

 

[Tar-Palantir]

There's also a ton of info about the Palantiri in Unfinished Tales as far as how large they were and how they worked, i.e. you had to stand on the east side of the stone to see west, etc....

 

[Atticus]

Weren't the stones rendered useless (for seeing very far) when the world was rounded anyway? I think that was mentioned in TT.

 

[Ellatur]

^ do you have any sources for that? it'd be interesting to read about it

 

[Ingwë]

What exactly would be the use of the stone if the Valar have no need of it? Also, is it possible then (because the stones could connect themselves to one another as it states in The Silmarillion) for one of the left over stones such as Saruman's or Denethor's to find the Masterstone and actually look into Valinor itself?

The Palantiri were made by Feanor and the Masterstone was in Eressea.

Fëanor had some problems with the Valar, as we know... Just a quarrel... I think that the Noldor won't give the stone to the Valar. But if the the Valar need to take a look over Arda they don't need a stone. I don't have the Sil in English but do you remember the description of the Valar and especially of Manwë and Varda? When they are together they see everything They don't need the stones.
Yes, I think it is possible to find the Masterstone but not only by Denethor and Saruman but by all owners of the Seven Stones. Is there any info about it? I have never read such information
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[Tar-Elendil13]

Also, is it possible then (because the stones could connect themselves to one another as it states in The Silmarillion) for one of the left over stones such as Saruman's or Denethor's to find the Masterstone and actually look into Valinor itself?

I think it is definitely possible, because doesn't Aragorn mention in ROTK that he wrenched the stone from Sauron's will and looked westward? sorry, can't find the quote.
TE13