the theology, idealized...gods and authors

[Parsifal]

I appreciate your thoughts and observations. However, if you think about it, the Christ, the Saints and even the archangel Michael act under the authority of God. Ulmo acts in despite of the will of Manwe and the other Valar.

I suppose what I am trying to suggest is that, whether he realized/acknowledged it or not, Tolkien's world has an irreducible element of Teutonic/Nordic/Celtic and even Olympian pagan cosmology to it.

One may argue that all is under the will of Eru and so Tolkien's cosmology is ultimately monotheistic. But the same applies to Brahman of Hinduism. But who would call Hinduism a monotheistic religion? There are not only good and evil gods, but also ambivalent gods and gods who are not as simple as good or evil.

I think Tolkien loved the pagan cultures he studied and couldn't help but include their pagan cosmology in his world.

Agreed, Tolkien was definately inspired by Nordic (as he calls them) cultures and religions.
However, so is Roman Catholicism, which had become a mixture of Greek Christianity and Western-European/Roman religions, in order to appeal more to the pagans of Western Europe.
Think Christian holidays, which have replaced the Germanic ones, and still involve many pagan traditions. Eastern (Osterfest) for example, which involves the very pagan Easter-Bunny (fertility symbol), or Chrismas (Winter Solstice) with the pagan Christmas Tree and possibly Santaclaus. And obviously every holiday which date evolves around the moon/seasons.

So, even though the Bible speaks of Angels/Saints/Christ as beings obidient to God, its very possible Medieval people didn't intrepet it this way. Think about Christ on the Cross ("My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"), which may indicate they did have a free will and were responsible for there own actions. (Christ not being an ordinary Human, otherwise this would be obvious ofcours.)

It is also possible that Tolkien was a "Theosophist", believing that every religion has a center of truth and that they combine into the absolute Truth, though he would ofcours never admit this.

 

[PaigeSinclaire88]

perhaps we see a paraodox; in the creation, the song; verily melkor was corrected by Iluvater, but as mr. Grond so aptly put
it terms of chi, there is dichotomy in the overall theme of the story.
Creating and destroying, only to build again...ad nauseum.
The fight between good and evil, the impulses felt..this is what made the story so compelling to me. I have read the biographies, as I am sure the general public here has, Tolkien felt strong ties to the Roman Catholiscism(sp?) view point, but he also felt the need to create a mythoi fort his native England, he always felt the mythological background was lacking in England's past.
But perhaps he felt guilty, because for it seemed he created a too real place for himself in middle-earth, he may have felt the sin of idolitry and that of the first commandment.

and in getting back to the punch line-does any one like it when they are labeled with only one moniker that equates them. The many facets of our personalities, are from the same prism, for to see in shades of gray, there must be refraction.

this refraction, is the temianl point of seeing things in black or white, good or bad, right or wrong. It is the issue of nature and self, our role in it and how it affects us.

as Sardte' would say

I am responsible for what I do, not what happens.


glamdring has swung, shifting his wieght for the killing blow,
tuor calls to the swans....his last prayer.

I personally describe myself as an Agnostic, and I find what man says about 'God' but that is just me. I believe in a god or a higher power but as a human I find it hard to believe that we as humans could ever comprehend such a thing.

Now, on that note I do however respect the fact that Tolkein and CS Lewis were not only best friends but incredibly religious men.

I find that the myths of King Arthur and Beowulf did not completely float with how Tolkein saw the world. And in creating middle earth he could answer questions he had about the world and his religion. I think through frodo's journey we see this theme, he is responsible for what he does not for what is happening around him. Which makes a lot of sense in the world we live in. Mind you, he lived during WWII and I find LOTR's and the histories of middle earth his own way of accepting the atrocities that were happening in the world at the time.