The Truth About Tolkiens ❤️ stories

[grimalkin]

IS THAT THEY ARE NIGHTMARES NOT AS CRUDE AS THE BROTHERS GRIMM TALES THOUGH NIGHTMARES NONETHELESS

It is not my intention to place here a sweeping statement, however I cannot make up my mind whether all middle earth relationships are in truth nightmarish or bitter-sweet? Excluding a few... any ideas...? OR WAS IT THE AUTHORS INTENTION TO PROVE THAT TALES DO NOT NECESSARILY HAVE HAPPY ENDINGS OR MAYBE HAVE ALSO MORE THAN ONE ENDING IN SOME CASES AT LEAST...

 

[Matthew Bailey]

I think a better word for them might be Tragedy.

They all seem to express a sort of Fatalism, whereby the Love is "Doomed" (in more ways than one) to exist, and "Doomed" to end in sadness for the two lovers.

I think that this is one of those aspects of his personality bleeding through pretty heavily into his works. As his early life was pretty dark, and he had to fight pretty hard to win his wife. And most of his friends died in WWI.

Add to that the Fatalistic Catholicism to which he subscribed, and you have a world that seems to be fairly bleak, where Love makes it tolerable for a while, and then it must end in sadness and separation.

MB

 

[Starbrow]

Doesn't the tale of Luthien and Beren end well? After all the horrible stuff the go through to get the Silmaril, they live out their lives together in Ossiriand.

 

[Matthew Bailey]

Doesn't the tale of Luthien and Beren end well? After all the horrible stuff the go through to get the Silmaril, they live out their lives together in Ossiriand.

Sort of.

But remember that they lives out their lives basically alone, never seen by living Men again (and the question of whether that includes Elves other than their Son Dior is open).

I would say that the Tale of Beren and Lúthien is yet another tragedy, because Lúthien gives up her grace to remain within the world after Beren's Death, and that they were only returned to live for a short while, alone. And the word Tolkien uses to describe them is another form of "Undead" (even if somewhat "sanctified" in its formation).

But that is a very good point, that their story ends much less of a tragedy than any other save for Aragorn and Arwen.

It is also poignant that Tolkien identified himself and his wife with Beren and Lúthien.

MB

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

Yeah. Tolkien seems pretty dark for a Catholic.

We're not really that dark, or dark at all.

I guess any one would be after going through what he went through.

 

[Matthew Bailey]

I don't know.... At least about my life not being very dark.

It is littered with corpses.

I can't say that it was as violent as Tolkien's in the way that most were lost.

But I have had the misfortune of seeing a lot of people die violently. It is an insight that I tend to both wish that I could rid myself of, and simultaneously wish that others had as well.

I think we would see far less suffering if others knew what it was like to watch someone killed horribly while powerless to stop it (That seems to be the worse aspect: Not being able to act to do anything, even if it would be futile).

I recognize that in a great deal of Tolkien's work (The frustration and rage of being powerless in situations where one is left feeling hopeless).

And my own actions have not always been without harm either.

But the point, I think, is to retain hope in spite of the fact that we might very well be doomed to ultimately be able to do nothing.

MB

 

[grimalkin]

Mr Bailey, your signature resembles William Shatner's 'my best Bill' ...

 

[christopherross]

This is very interesting point of view. I can agree with it fully