Tom Bombadil - Who or what?

[YayGollum]

Thank you. That makes all kinds of sense to me. Tom Bombadil could superly possibly be Eru. Also, I still don't see why he couldn't be Ulmo. just because Ulmo was the god of water doesn't mean that he can't hang out in a forest. He can take any form he wants. He can walk around in the Old Forest if he feels like it. No big deal.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by YayGollum
Thank you. That makes all kinds of sense to me. Tom Bombadil could superly possibly be Eru. Also, I still don't see why he couldn't be Ulmo. just because Ulmo was the god of water doesn't mean that he can't hang out in a forest. He can take any form he wants. He can walk around in the Old Forest if he feels like it. No big deal.

Taking into consideration the shape-shifting abilities of the Ainur, it would make much more sense if he was Yavanna. Does it really matter that she is female and he a male? No.

Or even Oromë. But not Ulmo. Not really.

 

[YayGollum]

Ack! What's the problem with Ulmo? Sure, Tom Bombadil doesn't act much like him, but does he act anything like any of the other Valar? I don't think so. Yay for Eru? Anyways, I was just thinking that he could be Ulmo because of Goldberry and the crazy singing and the fact that he liked Middle Earth more than any of the other Valar. *hides*

 

[BlackCaptain]

Not Ulmo because it is said in the books alot of times that Tom has no powers outside his forrest. Ulmo has control over all the waters of ME and Aman.

 

[YayGollum]

I hate that winking smilie thing. oh well. I must have missed that quote. Where is it hidden? oh well. If that craziness is true, then Tom Bombadil must be something totally different and never talked about anywhere else because all of the Maiar/Valar/Eru type things that I'm pretty sure Tom Bombadil must be have no crazy little limitations like that.

 

[baragund]

I'm with YayGollum on how to interpret Tom's "limits". Tom did not go outside the Old Forest or the Barrow Downs simply because he didn't feel like it. In "Fog on the Barrow Downs" of FOTR, Tom's parting song to the hobbits goes like

"Tom's country ends here: he will not pass the borders. Tom has his house to mind, and Goldberry is waiting!"

Because the ring had no effect on Tom, and because he so effortlessly deals with Old Man Willow and the barrow wights, I like to think that he could have strolled into Mordor, picked the lock to the front gate of Barad-dur sashayed up the stairs to the top of the tower, and given Sauron an atomic wedgie without breaking a sweat if he felt like it.

 

[BlackCaptain]

No... Gandalf says that he is the strongest force they will encounter save they come to the foot of the Dark Tower. That means

1. Sauron
2. Gandalf
3. Saruman
4. ... Probly Radagast

Tom Bombadil is not that strong... His greatest strength is the resiliance to the Ring, and he would have gone on the quest but he doesnt care about that 'stuff' ...

 

[YayGollum]

Ummm...am I just a really stupid person for not being able to understand what the list is supposed to be talking about? I thought at first that you were listing things that Tom Bombadil might be. Makes no sense to me. oh well. Anyways, if the guy could way too superly easily resist the One Ring when Gandalf and Saruman couldn't, I'd say that he'd have to be something bigger and scarier.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Gandalf did. Perhaps Tom Bombadil is one awesome force to reckon with... But my point was he couldnt just go and kick saurons behind like jimzeller said.

 

[YayGollum]

Okay, thanks for explaining that list. I wondered what Radagast had to do with anything. Anyways, since when can the evil torturer Gandalf resist the One Ring? I must have missed that part. oh well.

 

[BlackCaptain]

The whole begining. He could have taken the Ring from Bilbo or told Frodo to give it to him (and frodo would have given it to him). But he knew it was the best for everyone, and even all of ME to not take it.

 

[faila]

this is a greatly debateable point and I think tolkien himself knew, I think he planned on people argueing about or debating it. I personally think that he eru or illuvator. Why? Because he fits nothing else. People will most likely bring up points about why hes not illuvator, but illuvator was pretty much an all powerful being, who can understand him? I think that was him. He didnt own any one, yet he could controll.

 

[YayGollum]

Thank you. Makes all kinds of sense to me. Anyways, Ick. Sure, the evil torturer Gandalf resisted the One Ring those few times, but it is superly obvious that Tom Bombadil was a little bit more resistant. Or am I just crazy? Of course the evil torturer Gandalf would have more of a resistance that the average joe, but we still know that it would have gotten to him eventually.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Ive thought of the explanation, that there are only two real answers:


-Tom is just Tom. Not Man, Elf, Dwarf, Ainu, Ea, Eru, Hobbit, or anything else. Just Tom. 'He is'.
-Tom is what you think he is. I for one strongly believe he is a Maia, but I can't prove that, and no one can prove anything else. I can however give strong ideas to back my idea up, but I can't 100% prove anything.

No one will ever realy know the answer.

 

[YayGollum]

'He is' still reminds me of 'I am.' oh well. Sure, that last explanation makes all kinds of sense, but it's still fun to argue about it since most people usually have good proof to back their ideas up.

 

[BlackCaptain]

I agree... Tom Bombadil is one of my favorite topics to discuss. It's one thing that I love debating about, because it's one of few things i know a decent amount about.

I strongly believe he's a Maia if he is anything at all. But remember, I can't prove it!

 

[Iluisa Olórin]

Originally posted by YayGollum
Tom Bombadil has to be a race.

I absolutely disagree. Tom does not have to be classifiable as any race, because he is a fictitious character.

If he must be something, Gene Hargrove's assertion that he is Aulë sits most comfortably with me.

 

[BlackCaptain]

It isnt very convincing to me... Tolkien wouldn't make Goldberry the daughter of the River, if she was Yavana. It just doesnt make much sense...

 

[Iluisa Olórin]

The claim that Goldberry is the Riverwoman's daughter needn't be taken literally.

 

[BlackCaptain]

That's what he says, but Tolkien wouldn't mistake a suposed Vala's parents up. If he intended Goldberry to be Yavvana, he would never have given her the title of the 'Daughter of the River' in the first place.