I am slower on the uptake than some, so this comment may be old hat, too many of you. Have all of you noticed that Tom Bombadil‘s speeches, even those written in pros, are almost all written in the same meter as his songs? For example, his first speech, if written in verse: whoa! Whoa! Steady there, now my little fellows/where do you are going to, puffing like a pillows?/. What’s the matter here then? Do you know who I am?/ I’m Tom Bombadil. Tell me, what’s your trouble./ Tom’s in a hurry now. Don’t you crush my lilies! Almost all his speeches are like this. When I am reading it, I read the speeches as if they were his songs.
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Tom Bombadil’s Speech
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Server Room Gremlin
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I never noticed this, interesting. 🤔
Deimos
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I noticed it when it was obvious, when he was speaking in verse, but I soon became aware of it in his normal conversation.**
There's a thread about it somewhere around here. (S-e-S may be able to locate it.)
There are numerous web sites/entries discussing it, also.
I'll post a few links here... it's quite the rabbit hole, albeit an interesting one if you like literary language topics.
I found most of the discussions and essays very fascinating.
** I kept counting the "beats" or meter on my fingers whenever he spoke, and it never came out to any kind of verse meter I recognized... I finally had to look it up to see what others had said about it, if anything (and there is quite a lot said about it).
http://figures-of-speech.com/2017/07/bombadil.htm
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/268799/in-what-mode-does-tom-bombadil-sing
There's a thread about it somewhere around here. (S-e-S may be able to locate it.)
There are numerous web sites/entries discussing it, also.
I'll post a few links here... it's quite the rabbit hole, albeit an interesting one if you like literary language topics.
I found most of the discussions and essays very fascinating.
** I kept counting the "beats" or meter on my fingers whenever he spoke, and it never came out to any kind of verse meter I recognized... I finally had to look it up to see what others had said about it, if anything (and there is quite a lot said about it).
http://figures-of-speech.com/2017/07/bombadil.htm
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/268799/in-what-mode-does-tom-bombadil-sing
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I have a theory that song is as old as speech. Tom Bombadil is very old, so his speech approximates closer to song than ours does.
Server Room Gremlin
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In the Silmarillion, the world is created through song, the Music of the Ainur. So in Tolkien's world, song is present even before Time really begins.
I've read, somewhere and ages ago, that song is older.
Elsewhere, that if you have trouble memorizing something (for whatever reason you need to memorize it) try doing it as a song.
Teachers since perhaps WW II may be able to confirm this. In the schools i visited, the "syllabus" tended to include poems by people who were considered "must-be-memorized" by the creators of the syllabus. With diffident results when the teachers asked schoolchildren to recite these syllabus poems ...
...
...
... but ask these same "children" to recite "Hound Dog", "Good Golly Miss Molly", "She Loves You", "Yesterday", "Satisfaction", "Gimme Shelter", "Sunshine Of Your Love", "White Room", "Smoke On The Water", "Sundown", "You Make The Earth Move", "Stayin' Alive", "Beat It", "Thriller", etc., etc., etc., ...
they get them word-perfect.
(Me, I wouldn't get any of the lyrics word-perfect of the songs I mentioned above - but if I play some version of them on YouTube, the words pop up from what's called "passive memory" ...
Starbrow
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You may be right. My husband and I started spontaneously singing "Cats in the Cradle" this afternoon. My daughter is visiting the weekend and borrowed the car to go shopping, get some food, hear a concert, etc. Certainly not spending time with her boring old parents.
No poem comes to mind for this kind of situation.
No poem comes to mind for this kind of situation.
Deimos
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Oral traditions of every ancient civilization predates the written word.
Prior to writing it a people's history and cultural achievements were passed down through singing and/or chanting.
And to ensure it was remembered rhyming, alliteration, repetition, a consistent meter were some of the devices used.
Prior to writing it a people's history and cultural achievements were passed down through singing and/or chanting.
And to ensure it was remembered rhyming, alliteration, repetition, a consistent meter were some of the devices used.
TrackerOrc
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I'll just say that skimming is always a bad idea when reading JRRT's works. There are details to be found everywhere that only become clearer upon re-reading.
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I haven't found a dedicated thread, but I did post something about it here:
Post in thread 'Is Tom Bombadill someone who'd get anoying?' https://thetolkien.forum/threads/is-tom-bombadill-someone-whod-get-anoying.3953/post-587196
Deimos
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🤨 *ahem* 🤨 ...Tom Bombadil is my third favorite-est character of LOTR, behind Sam (numero uno), and then Treebeard.
So please do not feel the least bit slighted that you are not invited to join my very exclusive "Hey Dol, Merry Dol" fan club.
You may run along now.... or just have a seat over there against that big old willow... lovely place for a nap. 😉
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Deimos
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Well of course!
Here is the test for joining the Hey Dol, Merry Dol Fan Club.
You must answer No to all the questions. Even one Yes answer answers qualifies you to join the Ted Sandyman "You're All Cracked" club
Do I have a blind spot regarding Tom Bombadil? ......... Yes □ No □
Do I just skim the pages where he is mentioned? .......... Yes □ No □
Do I see no point in him being there at all? ........... Yes □ No □
Do I think there is far too much "Hey Dol, Merry Dol" nonsense? .......... Yes □ No □
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TrackerOrc
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I try every time I read the book.
Then I get to:
'Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dol dillo!'
At this point my eyes start glazing over and I wake up at the Sign of the Prancing Pony...
TrackerOrc
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Maybe that's what 's happening - it's all Old Man Willow's fault!
TrackerOrc
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I have such an aversion that I actually zone out of Bombadil's scenes in the audiobooks! Oh dear.
Deimos
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Altho' it is still Tom Bombadil I have to admit that I would probably forego listening to anyone (even Andy Serkis) actually sing the Bombadil verses.
IMO those verses are best read silently to oneself.
(And yes, @TrackerOrc you are probably thinking, "They are best read not at all.")
TrackerOrc
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You took the words right out of my mouth!
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