• Welcome to The Tolkien Forum! Connect with fellow Tolkien enthusiasts and join a community that is over two decades old, and still going strong. We look forward to meeting you.  Register

Turin destroys Morgoth?

Gloer

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
176
I have read from various threads that when Morgoth enters back to Arda through the gates of night there will be a final "Armageddon" battle in which all men and elves shall fight against all bad creatures.

The prophecy says that Turin - yes TURIN - shall avenge his father and his fate set by Morgoth. He shall slay the mighty foe of the world!

Where is this prophecy from?
Don't you think it is unlikely that even a resurrected Turin could ever manage that?
 
I have but one word for this: bah!
Even if someone comes forward with evidence and support for this preposterous idea, I will not accept it!
 
But note that the last version of Túrin's fate (prophesy by Andreth rather) is that he will return to slay Ancalagon the Black at the Last Battle, which in this context refers to the great battle at the end of the Elder Days.

The fate of Túrin has old roots, back to the early Tale of Turambar in The Book of Lost Tales where:

"... but Turambar indeed shall stand beside Fionwë in the Great Wrack, and Melko and his drakes shall curse the sword of Mormakil."

The idea saw revision of degrees, tinkering ~ most folk quote a version of the prophecy of Mandos from The Lost Road. One example of apparent revision: the passage including mention of Túrin as 'a son of the Valar' received a large X from Tolkien ~ and as said, in the last reappearance of the "mysterious and fluctuating idea" (C. Tolkien) it is foretold by Andreth that Túrin will return from the dead, and his last deed within the World Circles was to be the slaying of the Great Dragon.
 
Here is the version of the "prophecy" which appears in The Lost Road:



Tolkien later rejected this version of Turin's ultimate destiny; but at the time when The Lord of the Rings was written, this was the way that he intended to end The Silmarillion.
 
I am almost positive it also appears in HoMe IV The Shaping of Middle-Earth but cannot look it up cause I don't have the book here with me.
 
Actually, The Shaping of Middle-Earth contains two different version of the passage:



 
Tolkien seems to have been pretty set on this version of events. Turin gets the assignment in the early writings and it stays that way throughout many other revisions. Certainly he deserves it, but it seems unexpected. Still, one has to wonder, "why does it have to be Turin?"

I suspect that it has something to do with Tolkien's feelings on the oft mentioned but never resolved "purpose of Illuvatar for Men", but that's just a wild intuition. I also suspect that he realized that there were "problems" with this part of the story; such as "where was the spirit of Turin waiting all this time?" Only Tuor, I believe, was admitted to the halls of Mandos. So where was Turin hanging out?

And how is it that a Valar can be "Killed" at all? The Black Sword was broken when Turin died, I supose that the spirit of Turin is wielding the spirit of the sword (?)

All of this, and Tolkien's uncertainty about the true "meaning" of this passage, may well have been why he chose to drop it.

Still, it's an interesting thought, no?
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…