Ugly 🧙Maia. . .Why couldn't 👁️Sauron take on a fair form?

[Malbeth]

Sauron was probably very pleased with his final form

Indeed yes... but I don't think he was at all pleased to not be able to change it according to his desires... I think you can call it "punishment" in the same way that a burned hand is "punishment" for sticking your hand into the fire, i.e an undesirable but innevitable result of one's actions.

 

[YayGollum]

Makes all kinds of sense to me. I just don't get why anyone would feel like calling it a punishment from Eru or something. Craziness. oh well. Anyways, it's not that Sauron showed up with an ugly or scary looking body. It is that he found out that he lost the ability to look pretty. Even with the One Ring to bring him back after losing his body, he, okay, was maimed. No more ability to look pretty. sorry about that. The Sil. says that Mel became less powerful. Sauron did that, too. What's so strange about that?

 

[HLGStrider]

I see that as possible,

but wasn't Melkor's diminishment a punishment of sorts? It was definitely Valar/Eru inflicted.

 

[YayGollum]

I don't remember reading that. If that was written somewhere, why haven't you already tossed a quote about it over here? I had a good example for why he lost creepy powerses, but it's from Star Wars. oh well.

 

[HLGStrider]

I am not very Silmarilion competant, to tell you the truth. I don't post much in this forum.

I've been meaning to reread it, but I just like the Lord of the Rings part a lot better.

 

[YayGollum]

Uh, huh. *looks around for the The Sil. experts* I know what I'm talking about. The Sil. never said that Mel lost creepy powerses because he was being punished. It never actually spelled things out like ---> Mel lost his creepy powerses because...pleh. oh well. Since it didn't spell things out, you made this thread because nothing was an achingly sure thing for it to be an obvious example for what probably happened to Sauron. Got it. I say ---> Mel and Sauron lost creepy powerses because they got hurt. Or something like that. Even if they're really just messed up spirits, they can still get hurt. Mel got messed with a few times. People should expect him to always come back just as big and scary? I wouldn't think so. Besides, I see no examples of other Valar types getting hurt. There's no way to know that it was a punishment or if they're all like that.

 

[HLGStrider]

Actually, I wasn't the one to bring Melkor up. I even started this in the Lord of the Ring's section. . .which I shouldn't have. It does go here.

Sauron wasn't a Vala, though. He was a Maia. Gandalf came back pretty. I don't know of any other come-backers. . .

 

[YayGollum]

Wasn't I the one who brought Mel up? I forget. oh well. Sauron and Mel and the evil torturer Gandalf were all Ainur types. Same race. Maiar and Valar type things are just different levels of the same thing. Anyways, I'd say that the evil torturer Gandalf had a special deal with that Eru guy. Sauron came back because of crazy magic he came up with. Who's magic do you think might be better? Sauron's or Eru's?

 

[HLGStrider]

Yes, about the Ainur-Valar-Mayar thing, but there is a steep difference in power. It would seem that would make a difference of some sort in practice.

That is indeed a plausible theory, and I think I'll back it, if only because I think it would be a silly punishment, but at least some of them tend to think it is a punishment. ..

 

[YayGollum]

*eyes dart around with all kinds of wariness* Who's them? *relaxes* oh well. Got it. Steep difference in power. Not a huge deal. They're still the same thing, so they still have the same bodily functions (or should I call them spiritual, since that's all the Ainur types really are?).