⚔️War of the ring vs Battles of beleriand

[Turin_Turambar]

WAR OF THE RING

Sauron's attack on Osgiliath
Attack on the Woodland Realm
Skirmish in the outskirts of Lothlórien
First Battle of the Fords of Isen
Ambush of the Rohirrim
Second Battle of the Fords of Isen
Ambush of the Wargs
Battle of the Hornburg
Battle of Isengard
Battle of Ithilien
Battle of Cair Andros
Invasion of eastern Rohan
Assaults on Lothlorien
Battle of the Gilrain
Faramir's defence of Osgiliath
Siege of Gondor
Battle of Pelargir
Quarrel
Siege of the Iron Hills
Battle of Dale
Battle of the Pelennor Fields
Battle under the trees
Siege of Erebor
Second Battle of Cair Andros
Ambush in Ithilien
Battle of the Morannon
Fall of Dol Guldur
Battle of Bree
Battle of Bywater

total 29 war

300.000 elf
60.000 dwarf
3 million men

600.000 orc

4 elf kingdom
3 men kingdom
4 dwarf kingdom

Orcs
Uruk-hais
Wargs
Werewolves
Trolls
Olog-hais
Fellbeasts
Mumakils
Spiders

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles
Hobbits

BATTLES OF BELERIAND

Kinslaying at Alqualondë
First Battle
Dagor-nuin-Giliath
Battle of the Lammoth
Dagor Aglareb
Siege of Angband
Battle of the Firth of Drengist
Battle of the Gelion-Ascar stockade
Breach the Pass of Aglon
Dagor Bragollach
Battle of the Pass of Aglon
Fall of Tol Sirion
Second Assault on Hithlum
Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Fall of the Falas
Sack of Bar-en-Danwedh
Battle of Tumhalad
Fall of Nargothrond
Battle in the Thousand Caves
Battle of Sarn Athrad
Second Kinslaying
Fall of Gondolin
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath

total 24 war

1.3 million elf
350.000 dwarf
200.000 men

1 million orc

13 elf kingdom
3 men kingdom
2 dwarf kingdom

Orcs
Trolls
Wargs
Werewolves
Vampires
Balrogs
Dragons
Spiders

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles
Maiar

 

[Elthir]

Well, as far as beings go, orcs and goblins are the same thing.

It's a bit like saying these wars included Quendi and Elves.

And an uruk is a goblin/orc -- but at least this term came to denote a distinction (great soldier goblins) compared to lesser, snaga-types.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Well, as far as beings go, orcs and goblins are the same thing.

It's a bit like saying these wars included Quendi and Elves.

And an uruk is a goblin/orc -- but at least this term came to denote a distinction (great soldier goblins) compared to lesser, snaga-types.

but in the hobbit movies, orcs and goblins are shown as different races. I must have made the mistake of peter jackson.

 

[1stvermont]

Well, as far as beings go, orcs and goblins are the same thing.

It's a bit like saying these wars included Quendi and Elves.

And an uruk is a goblin/orc -- but at least this term came to denote a distinction (great soldier goblins) compared to lesser, snaga-types.

Yet there are many diverse varieties of orc/goblin.

 

[Elthir]

Yes Ecthelion, the films make a distinction between an orc and a goblin.

In Tolkien's books however, orc is a Westron word, orch is a Sindarin word . . . and goblin is an English word . . . and no one in Frodo's day spoke English (which language didn't exist yet). Goblin is used in translation -- but not in every instance of course, especially in The Lord of the Rings.

🐾

 

[Miguel]

I'm pretty sure it was scarier to live in Barad Eithel or Dorthonion than in Minas Tirith.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

I'm pretty sure it was scarier to live in Barad Eithel or Dorthonion than in Minas Tirith.

But during the siege of Gondor, the Gothmog catapulted severed heads to the city. I don't know if there is another example of this in the Silmarillion.

 

[Elthir]

Yet there are many diverse varieties of orc/goblin.

If you mean "nevertheless" ("yet") there were diverse varieties of goblins, that's not something I've ever tried to look at in detail -- to list "arguable varieties" for example.

There are many kinds of dogs for instance, but they are all dogs . . .

. . . and my points above were merely A) that the relationship between orc and "goblin" is a word and its English translation, and B) but that the word uruk at least came to refer, in usage, to a distinction, that is, the uruk-types versus the snaga types -- not matter how many other distinctions one might argue based on other descriptions, or whatever.

🐾

 

[Miguel]

But during the siege of Gondor, the Gothmog catapulted severed heads to the city. I don't know if there is another example of this in the Silmarillion.

"Then all the hosts of Angband swarmed against them, and they bridged the stream with their dead, and encircled the remnant of Hithlum as a gathering tide about a rock. There as the sun westered on the sixth day, and the shadow of Ered Wethrin grew dark, Huor fell pierced with a venomed arrow in his eye, and all the valiant Men of Hador were slain about him in a heap; and the Orcs hewed their heads and piled them as a mound of gold in the sunset."

But during the siege of Gondor, the Gothmog catapulted severed heads to the city. I don't know if there is another example of this in the Silmarillion.

"With them they brought Gelmir son of Guilin, that lord of Nargothrond whom they had captured in the Bragollach; and they had blinded him. Then the heralds of Angband showed him forth, crying: 'We have many more such at home, but you must make haste if you would find them; for we shall deal with them all when we return even so.' And they hewed off Gelmir's hands and feet, and his head last, within sight of the Elves, and left him"

But during the siege of Gondor, the Gothmog catapulted severed heads to the city. I don't know if there is another example of this in the Silmarillion.

"the Orcs with great labour gathered all the bodies of those who had fallen in the great battle, and all their harness and weapons, and piled them in a great mound in the midst of Anfauglith; and it was like a hill that could be seen from afar"

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Middle-earth events are similar to some events in real history.

 

[m4r35n357]

but in the hobbit movies, orcs and goblins are shown as different races. I must have made the mistake of peter jackson.

This is not the place to mention the films!

@Miguel, the way your post is formatted, I cannot quote it!

Just wanted to mention that in the Children of Hurin, "With them they brought Gelmir . . . whom they had captured in the Bragollach, and had blinded . . . and they hewed off Gelmir's arms and legs, and left him".

Much nastier IMO!

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Which of these two wars in different ages was greater?

WAR OF THE RING

Attack on the Woodland Realm
Sauron's assault on Osgiliath
First Battle of the Fords of Isen
Battle on the Eaves of Fangorn
Skirmish on Lorien
Second Battle of the Fords of Isen
Ambush of the Wargs
Battle of the Hornburg
Battle of Isengard
Battle of Ithilien
Battle of cair andros
First Battle of Lórien
Invasion of Eastern Rohan
Battle of Osgiliath
Battle of Belfalas
Battle of Linhir
Battle of Pelargir
Siege of Gondor
Battle of the Pelennor Fields
Battle of Cirith Ungol
Battle of Dale
Siege of Erebor
Battle Under the Trees
Second Battle of Lórien
Ambush in Ithilien
Third Battle of Lórien
Second battle of cair andros
Battle of the Morannon
Fall of Dol Guldur
Battle of Bree
Battle of Bywater

BATTLES OF BELERIAND

Kinslaying at Alqualondë
First Battle
Dagor-nuin-Giliath
Battle of the Lammoth
Dagor Aglareb
Siege of Angband
Battle of the Firth of Drengist
Battle of the Gelion-Ascar Stockade
Battle of the Aglon Pass
Dagor Bragollach
Battle of the Pass of Aglon
Fall of Tol Sirion
Second Assault on Hithlum
Assault on Doriath
Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Fall of the Falas
Battle on the marches of Doriath
Sack of Bar-en-Danwedh
Battle of Talath Dirnen
War of the Falas
Battle of the Crossings of the Taeglin
Battle of Tumhalad
Sack of Nargothrond
Battle of the forest of Brethil
Battle of the Thousand Caves
Battle of Sarn Athrad
Second Kinslaying
Fall of Gondolin
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath

WAR OF THE RING BEINGS

Orcs
Uruk-hais
Wargs
Werewolves
Trolls
Olog-hais
Fellbeasts
Mumakils

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles
Hobbits

BATTLES OF BELERIAND BEINGS

Orcs
Trolls
Wargs
Werewolves
Vampires
Balrogs
Dragons
Spiders

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Which of these two wars in different ages was greater?

WAR OF THE RING

Attack on the Woodland Realm
Sauron's assault on Osgiliath
First Battle of the Fords of Isen
Battle on the Eaves of Fangorn
Skirmish on Lorien
Second Battle of the Fords of Isen
Ambush of the Wargs
Battle of the Hornburg
Battle of Isengard
Battle of Ithilien
Battle of cair andros
First Battle of Lórien
Invasion of Eastern Rohan
Battle of Osgiliath
Battle of Belfalas
Battle of Linhir
Battle of Pelargir
Siege of Gondor
Battle of the Pelennor Fields
Battle of Cirith Ungol
Battle of Dale
Siege of Erebor
Battle Under the Trees
Second Battle of Lórien
Ambush in Ithilien
Third Battle of Lórien
Second battle of cair andros
Battle of the Morannon
Fall of Dol Guldur
Battle of Bree
Battle of Bywater

BATTLES OF BELERIAND

Kinslaying at Alqualondë
First Battle
Dagor-nuin-Giliath
Battle of the Lammoth
Dagor Aglareb
Siege of Angband
Battle of the Firth of Drengist
Battle of the Gelion-Ascar Stockade
Battle of the Aglon Pass
Dagor Bragollach
Battle of the Pass of Aglon
Fall of Tol Sirion
Second Assault on Hithlum
Assault on Doriath
Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Fall of the Falas
Battle on the marches of Doriath
Sack of Bar-en-Danwedh
Battle of Talath Dirnen
War of the Falas
Battle of the Crossings of the Taeglin
Battle of Tumhalad
Sack of Nargothrond
Battle of the forest of Brethil
Battle of the Thousand Caves
Battle of Sarn Athrad
Second Kinslaying
Fall of Gondolin
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath

WAR OF THE RING BEINGS

Orcs
Uruk-hais
Wargs
Werewolves
Trolls
Olog-hais
Fellbeasts
Mumakils

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles
Hobbits

BATTLES OF BELERIAND BEINGS

Orcs
Trolls
Wargs
Werewolves
Vampires
Balrogs
Dragons
Spiders

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles

 

[Turin_Turambar]

WAR OF THE RING

Sauron's attack on Osgiliath
Attack on the Woodland Realm
Skirmish in the outskirts of Lothlórien
First Battle of the Fords of Isen
Ambush of the Rohirrim
Second Battle of the Fords of Isen
Ambush of the Wargs
Battle of the Hornburg
Battle of Isengard
Battle of Ithilien
Battle of Cair Andros
Invasion of eastern Rohan
Assaults on Lothlorien
Battle of the Gilrain
Faramir's defence of Osgiliath
Siege of Gondor
Battle of Pelargir
Quarrel
Siege of the Iron Hills
Battle of Dale
Battle of the Pelennor Fields
Battle under the trees
Siege of Erebor
Second Battle of Cair Andros
Ambush in Ithilien
Battle of the Morannon
Fall of Dol Guldur
Battle of Bree
Battle of Bywater

total 29 war

300.000 elf
60.000 dwarf
3 million men

600.000 orc

4 elf kingdom
3 men kingdom
4 dwarf kingdom

Orcs
Uruk-hais
Wargs
Werewolves
Trolls
Olog-hais
Fellbeasts
Mumakils
Spiders

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles
Hobbits

BATTLES OF BELERIAND

Kinslaying at Alqualondë
First Battle
Dagor-nuin-Giliath
Battle of the Lammoth
Dagor Aglareb
Siege of Angband
Battle of the Firth of Drengist
Battle of the Gelion-Ascar stockade
Breach the Pass of Aglon
Dagor Bragollach
Battle of the Pass of Aglon
Fall of Tol Sirion
Second Assault on Hithlum
Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Fall of the Falas
Sack of Bar-en-Danwedh
Battle of Tumhalad
Fall of Nargothrond
Battle in the Thousand Caves
Battle of Sarn Athrad
Second Kinslaying
Fall of Gondolin
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath

total 24 war

1.3 million elf
350.000 dwarf
200.000 men

1 million orc

13 elf kingdom
3 men kingdom
2 dwarf kingdom

Orcs
Trolls
Wargs
Werewolves
Vampires
Balrogs
Dragons
Spiders

Ents
Elves
Dwarves
Men
Eagles
Maiar

The War of the Ring is ahead in terms of the number of battles, population size, and the number of races involved. However, the generally accepted view is that the Battles of Beleriand lasted longer. And the Battles of Beleriand included races not in the War of the Ring, such as Balrogs and dragons. Apart from that, there aren't many differences between them. They are quite similar in every aspect. Which war period do you think is greater and deserves more respect? War of the ring or Battles of beleriand?