Eljorahir
Seeking the strange paths of Elvish dreams
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2022
- Messages
- 2,158
Have you ever read or heard of a reason Tolkien gave Bibo’s sword the name Sting (other than the obvious: that it was used to kill spiders)? I’ve noticed a similarity to an important ship in British history, and I’m wondering if this has been noticed or discussed before.
Summary (note the similarity in the bolded text):
While confronting trolls, Bilbo thinks: “A nice pickle they were all in…” Then, shortly thereafter, Bilbo receives Sting.
Then, 77 years later…
After the Council of Elrond, Sam mutters: “A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in…” Then, shortly thereafter, Frodo receives Sting.
As silly as it may seem at first, what makes this repeated pickle/Sting pairing in the books very interesting for me is the pickle/Sting pairing that occurs in the real world of British Naval history (very close to home for JRRT):
About a century before Tolkien wrote his stories there was a small civilian ship named “Sting” which was purchased by the British navy and renamed “The Pickle”. This small but fast ship played an important role in history in bringing the news to England of the great naval victory at the battle of Trafalgar and also of the death of the revered naval commander Horatio Nelson.
The full “pickle” and “Sting” quotes:
Pickle:
“A nice pickle they were all in now: all tied up in sacks, with three angry trolls (and two with burns and bashes to remember) sitting by them, arguing whether they should roast them slowly, or mince them fine and boil them…”
3 pages later, Sting:
“…Bilbo took a knife in a leather sheath. It would have made only a tiny pocket-knife for a troll, but it was as good as a short sword for the hobbit.”
Pickle:
“’No indeed!’ said Elrond, turning towards him with a smile. ‘You at least shall go with him. It is hardly possible to separate you from him, even when he is summoned to a secret council and you are not.’ Sam sat down, blushing and muttering. ‘A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in, Mr. Frodo!’ he said, shaking his head.”
6 pages later, Sting:
“’This is Sting,’ he said, and thrust it with little effort deep into a wooden beam. ‘Take it, if you llike. I shan’t want it again, I expect.’ Frodo accepted it gratefully.”
Summary (note the similarity in the bolded text):
While confronting trolls, Bilbo thinks: “A nice pickle they were all in…” Then, shortly thereafter, Bilbo receives Sting.
Then, 77 years later…
After the Council of Elrond, Sam mutters: “A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in…” Then, shortly thereafter, Frodo receives Sting.
As silly as it may seem at first, what makes this repeated pickle/Sting pairing in the books very interesting for me is the pickle/Sting pairing that occurs in the real world of British Naval history (very close to home for JRRT):
About a century before Tolkien wrote his stories there was a small civilian ship named “Sting” which was purchased by the British navy and renamed “The Pickle”. This small but fast ship played an important role in history in bringing the news to England of the great naval victory at the battle of Trafalgar and also of the death of the revered naval commander Horatio Nelson.
The full “pickle” and “Sting” quotes:
The Hobbit
Pickle:
“A nice pickle they were all in now: all tied up in sacks, with three angry trolls (and two with burns and bashes to remember) sitting by them, arguing whether they should roast them slowly, or mince them fine and boil them…”
3 pages later, Sting:
“…Bilbo took a knife in a leather sheath. It would have made only a tiny pocket-knife for a troll, but it was as good as a short sword for the hobbit.”
Pickle:
“’No indeed!’ said Elrond, turning towards him with a smile. ‘You at least shall go with him. It is hardly possible to separate you from him, even when he is summoned to a secret council and you are not.’ Sam sat down, blushing and muttering. ‘A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in, Mr. Frodo!’ he said, shaking his head.”
6 pages later, Sting:
“’This is Sting,’ he said, and thrust it with little effort deep into a wooden beam. ‘Take it, if you llike. I shan’t want it again, I expect.’ Frodo accepted it gratefully.”
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