What change in the movies ticks you off the most?

[ReadWryt]

Ok, I know you are all dying to know the answers you SHOULD Have known if you were REALLY cool Lord of the Rings fans like Peter Jackson is...so heeeeeeere they are!!

1) What do Uruk-Hai start life as?
Answer: Maggots

2) WHat creature does Gandalf speak to while imprisoned at Orthanc, which ultimately leads to his escape?
Answer: A Moth

3) What is the name of Arwen's horse?
Answer: Asfaloth

If you got all three right, I'm really scared for you and hope that you seek the proper professional help you obviously need. Getting 2 right means that there is hope, and that you were just really lucky to have guessed what Peter Jackson is thinking. 1 Right wins you the "Gee, that's remarkable that you could even THINK of that" award, and 0 correct means that you are a real Tolkien Fan and will probably be groaning and heading to the bathroom to wait out the excruciating waves of nausia the moment the credits begin to roll.

Now, for the exciting bonus question, which I think many of you will successfully guess...

Whom does Saruman send to retrieve the hobbits of the Fellowship?

 

[Mithrandir]

I HATE PJ
I HATE PJ
I HATE PJ

 

[Beorn]

Originally posted by ReadWryt
Whom does Saruman send to retrieve the hobbits of the Fellowship?

As long as it's not some insect...

 

[Kementari]

RW thats aweful! EWWWW! I HATE insects, elves didn't even like beetles and spiders........

 

[Telchar]

What is "A Moth"?

 

[Kementari]

you don't know what a moth is?

umm its like a butterflie, but it has a bigger body and they are ugly colours

 

[Beorn]

A moth, like Kem said, has a bigger body than a butterfly...but not always ugly colors...Usually, but there are some pretty ones. Moths are those bugs that hang around lights on warm nights. They are white, grey, or brown, or pretty mixes of the two. You know what they are, you just don't call them moths

 

[Thorin]

My question, is....from where does the strength come from for that moth to carry Gandalf away from Orthanc and many leagues across ME...

Can you imagine on the battlefield in front of Morannon...."The moths are coming! The moths are coming!!"

(Camera pans over to Gwahir and his flock sitting on the sidelines muttering, "I didn't see this in our contract!")

Well, that is the problem with changes..it's like lies..one leads into another and into another before the truth is left behind. By making the Saruman, Gandalf confrontation in real time, that eliminates any mention or encounter with Radagast, therefore, there was no way Gwahir would have come to Orthanc looking for Gandalf. So he needed a messenger....WHY A MOTH??? What the heck is PJ thinking?? Why not a sparrow, or a carrier pigeon?? A moth? Gwahir would accidentally eat him, never mind listen to a message from him. One ridiculous turn leads into another and another....

Down with PJ!

 

[Mithrandir]

YES DOWN W? PJ

 

[Maclock]

Oh dear, if all of these changes are true it really does seem that the movie may fall well short of the standard that Tolkien set. I am still clinging to the hope that the film will, despite the changes, be enjoyable and true enough to the spirit of MR to be worth watching. I'll still reserve my final judgement, but I can understand the frustration of this forum's members. Will everyone here still go to see the film? Will you have an open mind, despite what you've read here?

Mac

 

[Greymantle]

As far as I know, Iluvatar is the only one who says he's not going to go see the film.
I don't think this is a matter of us keeping open or closed minds. I embraced the idea of a movie with an open mind, but the changes that we know, for sure, have been made, the words and actions of Peter Jackson, and the trailers we've seen have led me to despise the whole idea. Keeping an open mind does not mean never making a decision.

 

[ReadWryt]

Who says that a Moth carries Gandalf away? I suspect that what has happened is this...since apparently from what I can tell there is NO character of Radagast, then the Istari who WOULD have told the Eagles about Gandalf's intentions cannot send them to his aid, ergo since Maggots and Moths abound in Middle-earth, as you would know had you ever spent any time in the otherwise empty recesses of Peter Jackson's head, then Gandalf confides in a Moth who goes and gets the Eagle...it all makes perfect sense if you just were to get in touch with your Inner Insect.

Oh, and never one to leave well enough alone, here is the link to what New Line was going to release as of March 2nd 2001 as a poster according to their official web site. Click here and be amazed! *Snicker*

Look closely at this and tell me what important feature differentiates it from all the posters made since...

 

[Beorn]

I'm not sure, but at the bottom, it says "Read the novel published by Houghton Mifflin."

 

[ReadWryt]

Mike,

Close, but the important change is that it says "J.R.R.Tolkien's" above the movie's logo. You can't find that on anything they have officially published since...I wonder why? Herrrrrmmmmmmmm...

 

[rparsons]

FOTR trashcans and stuffed hobbits

I can see it now: stuffed Frodo dolls and Balrog keychains.

Whats wrong with the Hollywood treatment?
Hollywood seeks money. Art is secondary. Everything else, except in rare cases, is secondary.
Producers and directors are hired to make "shock-value" and attract
audiences. The first thing I noticed in the trailer was Gandalf not being Gandalf. He is in a big hurry and says "Is it safe?" That was my clue that this movie is getting the full Hollywood treament. (On the other hand the sets costumes and such seem to be right on the mark)

What can be done about it?

The writer needs to get mean and face up to the child-like director and marketing freaks. And that means showing up on set occasionally and getting legal papers and secure some authority to pull the plug. The Harry Potter movie apparantly follows the book exactly because at first the author wouldn't let them make it for fear of changes. And she only agreed if no changes were made.

Now in The Lord of the Rings, it seems to me that some scenes should be dropped and some dialouge dropped such as the huge speech at Elrond's or the Bombadil adventure. (although I liked the Barrow Downs part) Its interesting that things were dropped, AND unneccesary scenes were added. So one can't say, "we needed to save time". They wanted to get a larger audience and the director, script writer and other peoples don't feel like they are doing their job if they don't add a head bump and a few Arnold one-liners. If there's a car in a movie it needs to become airborne at some point. A love interest? Then of course she needs to take off her top off at some point or kiss a dying man or become Xena.

I think I will kinda like the movie when I see it, but have a tear in my eye for what could have been. It seems to me that it will be very much like Star Wars Episode I. I had huge expectations that were only lived up to in special effects and a decent, if somewhat lacking, light-sabre duel. I'm also thinking of Dune, which probably should never have been made into a movie since the book has a lot of "inside people's heads" in it. The main idea of Dune came accross in the movie but I was very disappointed.
So I'm going to try to enjoy being in Middle Earth for a while and try to run and get popcorn when an orc egg pops or a brand new character enters the scene. I will enter the theatre not expecting the book or the true characters. 'sniff'

My main complaint is the changing of characters. I feel like I know Gandalf and I just don't want to see him as impatient, bumping his head, or 'dueling'. He was a kind man, even to Gollum. He let Saruman live and that was in his nature. If Hollywood could get away with it, he would have a machine gun in his hand and saying,"I'll be back!" Hollywood should realise that the scene in Moria when Gandalf calmly rests on his staff and says,"you cannot pass" is a very cinematic moment. You don't need the whole place falling apart and everyone running out just in time. And the ring doesn't need to be seen. Frodo clutching at his shirt has a much greater effect than actually pulling out the ring and tossing it around. After all, there is nothing visually interesting about a gold ring. In a ghost movie its the door shutting, the shadow,and the darkness that scares people, not a bloody zombie wanting to eat brains.

For those of you who say,"It's just a Hollywood movie and if Frodo packs an AK-47 all the better" I say fine. Change Frodo's name to Arnold. Change the title to "An Adventure Loosly Based on The Lord of the Rings". Changing anything but the most minor things in LOTR is like changing the Bible thinking no one will notice.

 

[ReadWryt]

Unfortunately, propping up the corpse of J.R.R.Tolkien in front of the Child-Like Director, Peter Jackson, would only create a Photo-op that would end up being spun as the old man rising from the grave to give PJ his blessings on the forthcoming production.

As for the Screenwriter and Director, they are the self same afore mentioned person, Peter Jackson. Aside from pointing a finger at New Line, something we won't see start until after Return of the King is released it won't happen, there is nobody else to blame for the gross change in the tale. Nobody involved with this project is getting paid in full up front aside from Sub Contractors like WETA and many of the Crafts Persons. The main players are taking a percentage of the Net after the fact, and a portion of money up front. There was not enough budget to pay that many actors and upper level production staff three times the wages up front AND make a movie or three...so there will be little said by anyone involved that could be the least bit harmfull to their own making the most money in the end that they can.

People keep saying that these are little changes, and individually they could not be more correct. If the only change in the film was Arwen's role, it would not be a big thing...outside of the fact that Tolkien himself said in a letter to Forrest J. Ackerman that he would rather see changes made in the plot then ever watch them alter his characters. But the fact that there are so many "little changes" and that so many of them are for no apparent good reason, Uruk Hai growing from maggots and emerging from pods, Gandalf acting crazed, Arwen wielding a sword and riding horseback...saving Frodo from the Nazgul, Gandalf and Saruman having a "Wizard's Duel" before Gandalf coaxes a Moth to help him escape, Boromir getting his hands on the Ring (Even if only the chain the Ring is on, Frodo is NOT in possession at that point), Lurtz, Hobbits having Pointy Ears...Elves having pointy ears...Merry and Pippin bravely facing the Nazgul on Weathertop...it all adds up into a great deal of change when you think that I have really just scratched the surface. These are only the things I could confirm through the Trailer and from Stills released through official outlets.

 

[Thorin]

Originally posted by ReadWryt
Unfortunately, propping up the corpse of J.R.R.Tolkien in front of the Child-Like Director, Peter Jackson, would only create a Photo-op that would end up being spun as the old man rising from the grave to give PJ his blessings on the forthcoming production.

LOL! RW you kill me...'chuckle'.

My burning question for PJ is WHY???? I can see some changes to make it more dramatic (though I highly disprove of them) but why the little changes?? Things like:

- Legolas wearing boots
- Maggot's carrots instead of mushrooms
- moth coming first instead of Gwahir (they could even have had Gwahir stumble on Gandalf accidentally)
- appearance of Hobbits
- skeleton falling in Moria instead of a rock.
- Bilbo and Frodo's lack of reluctance to give up the ring
- Fellowship volunteering instead of being appointed
- Bilbo not being at the Council (even in presence)
- Gimli's little drama trying to destroy the ring with his axe at the Council ( Gandalf made it plain to Frodo that the ring could not be destroyed except by the fires of Mount Doom. Or did PJ cut that part as well??)

And many more I'm sure you could all add.
Why does he feel the need to alter LoTR in the little things? What sense does it make..does he need to feel in ultimate control? Does he have no respect for Tolkien at all???

DWPJ!!!

 

[rparsons]

pointy ears and such

My guess as to all the silly changes is that P.J. felt like he needed to add something. I work as a stage hand and I have to work with directors and technical directors and such. I've only worked on a movie set once though. What I have seen is that the crew and talent does everything well and often leaves nothing for the director to do. To feel better about him/herself, the director simply looks for something to change. Watch a housewife, sorry ladies, try to decide how to decorate a room and you get my drift.

PJ> "Hmmm, I like the part where Gandalf slams his staff and breaks off a piece of the stone bridge but lets make it more dramatic. Lets have the whole place falling apart and have the party trip over an orc egg just as its hatching. Then lets have Frodo bump his head into an orcs butt. Hmmm yes that would be good for the 2 year olds in the audience."

Its really not much different than a planner saying," Hmmm, lets put that plant over there and gawd that color is all wrong for the napkins!"

As a side note, I can't get my brother to read the books and I know that many people start and then stop. I suspect that many of the people working in and on the movie haven't even read it. It is long story and not all that easy to read. The many names and history lessons made me drop it when I was trying to read it in high school. I'm reading it now for the thrid time and loving it. On the bright side, people such as my brother who needs visual input such as TV and refuses to read anything might be inspired by the movie to actually read the real thing. Lets hope many do read it and see how much better it is than this Hollywood money mill.

 

[ReadWryt]

Well, except that in this case the Director wrote the Screenplay, and the Screenplay is what got him the money, so the version you are going to see is mostly what PJ created in the first place...Boredom had nothing to do with it.

...and I have NO idea how many times I have seen that stupid quote from Peter Jackson about how he and the actors would read each chapter before shooting it...so we at least know that the Director and Actors read it.

 

[Maclock]

It seems as if this topic is coming to a natural end.... SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING I CAN ARGUE WITH! My days at work are soooo dull without. mac