What change in the movies ticks you off the most?

[Thorin]

Originally posted by ReadWryt
The fact is that Jackson has removed thing he claimed were in the interest of time, and invented things that more then fill the time he saved by doing the cutting.

And that just blows all the "you have to make cuts because the movie will be too long and you can't possibly fit it all in." gibberish from sympathizers to PJ, including some on this forum.

PJ cut important stuff and changed stuff just to replace it with invented nonsense. Some cutting for time factor. Take out the scenes that would remain true to the book, and replace them with crap scenes, then tell everyone that you are staying true to the book!

Good ol' PJ! Give that man the thumbs up, eh? I feel so safe knowing that JRR is in his hands! Right...and now I'll say something that will make my nose shrink...

DOWN WITH PJ!!!

 

[ReadWryt]

Well I just saw that "Quest for the Ring" thingy...I still find it wildly amusing that it aired on Fox instead of the WB.

The first shot in this special, I feel, establishes the entirety of what Peter Jackson has done to what is otherwise a great piece of literature, and demonstrated how much he is, as one person in the show said, "The Lord of the Rings". The first thing we see is that scene from the book where Boromir is in possession of the Ring and comments about how remarkable it is that such a small thing could be the cause of so much trouble....Oh wait, that's right...nobody has posession of the Ring in the books save for Frodo, and he KEEPS Boromir from getting his hands on it...and it's crucial to the plot that that happens because of Boromir's lust for the power of the Ring and because it's power is so seductive. I remember now, I must have been thinking of some OTHER Lord of the Rings book where that happens. *eyeroll*

I hope that millions of Tolkien fans across the US saw that and scratched their heads saying, "What the *&^@!???". That and the footage of the Wizard Duel should get the blood boiling out there in Fandom Land...

But he DID, thankfully, remember to include that humerous interlude with the two Hobbits getting into Gandalf's Fireworks and setting off the "Red Dragon Rocket" that we all remember from the boo...er, ok...maybe that wasn't in the book at all either.

I really liked the High School Stage Production Faux Wood door in Moria. I thought that the painted wood grain really added to the authenticity of the production in general. Of course I guess that is what we expect from Peter Jackson, the "perfectionist" as Kate Blanchett called him...never mind that "To the left of the great arch they found a stone door: it was half closed, but swung back easily to a gentle thrust.". I would have thought that faking a stone door would have been easier and accurate. *Sigh*

 

[sharkeysmate]

Scooter,

Sorry pal, I just can't agree! I understand fully that certain changes may have to be made. We can't always see in a film what motivates a character or what a character may be thinking like we can in a book thanks to the narrative, but when changes are made that affect the audiences perception of the characters involved I have to object. Surely the bottom line is that Arwen has been given a more 'involved' role to appeal to a broader audience. I would have to counter that by saying that as one of the most popular books of all time the fan base is wide enough for an exact translation of the book to a film to be a huge financial (and that's what it's all about) success? Tolkien developed his characters and showed their strengths and weaknesses in far more subtle ways. Arwens resolve to give up the voyage over sea to stay with Aragorn emphasises her inner qualities in a far more potent way than carrying Frodo to safety. There was a comment made earlier that the reason behind this specific change may be to prevent having to introduce another character, but very little is said of Glorfindel in the book. Aragorn and Legolos' recognition of him is enough of an intro.
I say again, IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT!
By the way, I live in Ireland and have not seen the special you are all currently referring to! Any idea where I can get a download.....

 

[Dagorlad]

Well. That site that I got to from scooter's post last page showed a lot of "pros" and "cons" - each of the described changes had them.
That appeared to be a website mostly dedicated (at least right now) to pointing out how ruined Jackson's film is - there's the petition and all.
Then I found that whoever wrote up all of those "pros" has sure given us a hell of a list of terrible, unacceptable changes. Now why would those be considered pros? What critic in his right mind, that demands integrity in the film, would call those "pros"? Who, other than people with a vested interest in spreading that view, would try to spread those ideas out widely amongst the Tolkien fans that are known to be disgusted with most of those very changes? I'm stumped. I thought of VERY few of those as pros in any way at all. Some, yes. But many were exactly the type of things that ruin what could have been better over and over again. Like - 'wait, we can't have a Ranger hero running about in the wilderness with a broken sword. He needs a real one. Especially since he has to fight those black riders. Sensationalism. We must have frequent action and comedy or our simpleton audience won't understand and pay attention'

 

[ravenswood]

Scary people

Scary people, I hope your wrong though, orc pods sound naff, but I don't remember the book elaborating on how the Orcs were bred, although I think I remember the rape of captured women being mentioned ? maybe a little too strong for Hollywood ? who knows

Even though I will not let these changes take my enjoyment away
from what promises to be a good movie, although I won't believe
the anonymous good reviews til I have seen them in newspapers
and more importantly. SEEN the FILM

Dave

Ps The Old Forest is beautiful this time of year
Sarehole, Moseley, Birmingham, England

 

[Valinorean]

Originally posted by Grond
Val, go to the movie. Forget for 3 hours that you've ever read JRRT and just enjoy it. It is going to be an absolutely gang buster movie. . . If you go into the theatre with no expectations.. then you should have a blast.

I thought about it last night, and you are right, Grond that the movie looks great. If only I had never read the books . . .

As for the "Quest for the Ring" documentary, though, I think it was a big ball of cheese with crackers and nuts . The narration was terrible, and I thought the interviews with the actors were awful, especially considering these actors had two years to think about it.

And Tal, you are right about the troll - it reminded me a little of the troll from Harry Potter, only a little scarier and without the troll-boogers.

 

[Talierin]

yeah, what is it with the stupid-looking trolls! Two in one year! I finally remembered what the LOTR troll looks like. He/she looks sort of like the alien guys with the copper-colored eyes in Star Wars: The Phantom Mess.....

 

[Elendil]

Originally posted by Talierin
Actually Val, Tolkien is supposed to be pronounced Toll-Keen. Tolkien said so himself.

Okay, who thought the Cave Troll was really, really stupid looking?

Yeah you're right, it is pronounced Tolkeeen in the documentaries where Tolkien's family is interviewed.

The cave troll sort of looks like Sully (from Monsters, Inc) without the blue hair. Hehe.

 

[ReadWryt]

Ok, ok...yer pickin on the Troll so I feel I hafta weigh in here as a 3D animator.

Yeah, the character animation of the Troll is a bit weak, mostly because they had too much tension on the "Skin" and it came off looking rubbery. The reflective quality of the skin was adding to the rubber effect as well, the specular reflective quality was set too high. If it had been a bit less reflective it would have looked more like "skin". But I gotta say that the "What the HECK?" look it gets on it's face when it looks down at the arrow that just hit it was precious! It really looks surprised that someone actually hurt it...nice touch. It's motion was pretty well done as it really conveyed weight and bulk. They did a pretty good job of portraying the inertia involved in moving about with that much mass, but anyone with a good mind for scripting Hierarcial Inverse Kinematics can pull that off in a pinch.

The thing that worries me is not the Troll himself but the fact that the same program, modelers and animators will be doing Gollum, and that gives me concerns...

 

[Radagast]

Changes will ruin the film for all loyalists

I was anticipating this movie with caution. After being a devoted Tolkien reader from early on in my life, I realized that whenever someone else tries to interprete his work, instead of just reading what is there, problems arise. The ad-ins will be a disaster because they are not there to improve Tolkiens work (an impossibe task since the works are perfect) but they have been added so the movie can draw a larger audience. It is as simple as that, Hollywood corrupts art to make money. They needed to bring in a charater "politically correct" to have a female role model. Tolkien was not politically correct and that just doesn't sit well with Hollywood so they had double the incentive to change a briilliant classic "money and political agenda".
So will the movie be ruined? I don't know, I will have to see it. The trailer looked awesome, in someways directly copied from Ralph Bakshi's annimated version, which was pretty good, but also deviated from the books, but not as arrogantly.
As a film version of the book I guess us loyalists will have to take away what is accurate from the film and thrown the rest away. Isn't some company coming out with a DVD machine that you can edit at home? That would be ideal for this version.
I hope I'll be able to enjoy the movie anyway. "There's always hope Mr.Frodo."

 

[Greymantle]

Welcome, Radagast! Let's see.... we just got a Saruman today. We've got a Mithrandir and an Olorin and a The Grey, but I don't think we have an actual Gandalf.... once we've done that, we'll only need Alatar and Pallando and we'll have all the Istari!

 

[Chippy]

Welcome Radagast

 

[Grond]

Welcome Radagast. Thou art good. Lo, I am evil.

Hail all of my forum friends!! Many ducks (20) were crushed this weekend (last weekend of this split of duck season in LA) by Grond, Hammer of Melkor.

 

[Radagast]

Welcoming

Thanks to all for the welcome.

I was debating for a while with how much I really want to see the movie after hearing about all the changes that have been made, and then I remembered what it was that got me to start reading the books in the first place.
I was in elementary school when I first saw the Rankin-Bass version of the Hobbit on tv. I loved it, and it made me buy the books. Then after finishing the books I was totally absorbed by by Tolkien's Middle-Earth (which all of us I'm sure were)and I no longer really paid a lot of attention towards the annimated Hobbit. So in the same line of thinking, there are a lot of elementary kids out there that are going to be exposed to TLoTR for the first time. The movie in the end will end up creating more Tolkien readers who will eventually know first hand what was meant to be.

(OT) Does anyone know about the rift in the Tolkien family because of the movie? I only saw the little flash of news that went bt the screen on either CNN or Fox. Thanks

 

[ReadWryt]

The Webmaster posted a report about the Family Rift here... http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=17221#post17221 very early this morning.

 

[Moriarty]

Hmmm just found the forum ....as the movie seems to have hijacked everything to do with The Lord of the Rings on the web.........
I am a bit disturbed to hear of unnecessary ( i think ) changes which just seem to give the big name stars a bigger peice of the action... but i was kinda expecting it ... after all why get Liv Tyler for a 2 second bit part in the movie.

Even some of the sounds files from the movie I have seen on the movie site annoy me Gandalf saying " run you fools" instead of "Fly you fools' ...I mean why ?.... can't the Yanks understand it otherwise ? ( sorry all Americans here but it seems daft to change something like that).
Personally I think the BBC radio play is impossible to beat in terms of interpretations of the books since the characters seemed to re-inforce and portray the books so exactly. I suppose if they start pronouncing names differently as they did with Gandalf's name in "The Hobbit" BBC radio version ( Gan - dalf... like it was two words) I will be even more annoyed.
Also the music for the BBC version was brilliant ( except for one or two bits to do with the elves anyway) and I think the music I have heard for the film is pretty forgettable.

Oh well! I expect it will be ok .... but lets face it the books are impossible to live up to..... it's going to be very hard not to compare a personal image from the books with the one we are going to be presented with in the movies. I is also rare when a movie of a book is better than the book... ( only example I can think of was John Grisham's 'The Firm' where the movie plot was more convincing than the books'.

 

[Tar-Steve]

I just found the change that pisses me off the most. So far.

The Ringwraiths aren't all riding black horses. They look brown. You guys may think that's minor but I think it's stupid and lazy. All the cash spent on such a production and they couldn't pick up 9 black horses?

 

[Grond]

Tar... I read that the Black Horses wouldn't show up on camera well given many of the dark and dreary settings in which they appear. The brown ones looked much better and PJ just decided (for the sake of cinema mind you) to change another insignificant tidbit. I guess he doesn't realize that 20 - 30 minor changes equal a different story than the book. Add to that 20 - 30 major changes and we may as well be watching Willow!!

 

[Greymantle]

You'd think, with all the "amazing" modern technology... PJ is endlessly praised for his talent with "dark" camerawork and settings... and they managed to create one of the characters digitally and insert him into a live action set.... you'd THINK they could do black horses!

 

[Bandgeek]

My God...

I cannot believe some of the stuff that they are changing!!! I mean, that's awful about the orcs, the whole thing is FUBAR. I wish I hadn't read the book, maybe the movie would be good.....Oh well, I AM glad I did, but man...

Bandgeek