What change in the movies ticks you off the most?

[Maclock]

Hi everyone!

I was taking my usual hellish journey on one of london's many knacked buses yesterday. Then I noticed something very interesting, of the 10 or so people reading books, 4 of them were reading LOTR and another was reading The Hobbit! Whatever the impact of the film (whether good or bad) the increase in Tolkien readers (and this is surely evidence of this as I'd never seen it before) that the increased media attention has brought has to be beneficial. Well, at least I think so...

Mac

 

[Grond]

Most of us on this forum, hate what Peter Jacson has done to the script of the movie but hoped the one good that would come out of it would be increased readership. Hopefully, that is what you're seeing and we will get a whole new crop of Tolkien heads.

By the way, Maclock, if I haven't said so before, Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Thorin]

Yes, increased readership is a good thing. I am seeing it in many of my students and they love to talk Tolkien with me....My hope is that people love the books over the movie regardless of how great the movie is...I hope (especially our young people) that many will still rever the text over the visual image...and say, "Yeah, the movie was good, but the book was much better! And they made a lot of changes that didn't fit for the movie." And continue to read Tolkien's books over and over again.

My wish is that this interest in LoTR reading isn't just to hype themselves up for the movie, or that people aren't reading it to see what the Action Arwen they've been hearing about is doing in the book, or whether Lurtz really does fight Aragorn and cause havoc amongst the Fellowship like the previews and pictures they've been seeing...that would be wrong.

 

[newby]

Christopher Tolkien's Response(s) ?

I spent my lunch hour yesterday readint the entirety of this thread to familiarize myself with some of the changes, whether proposed or actual, from the book version to the film version. My singular question is are there links and or responses that I can read from Christopher Tolkien with regard to his feelings/arguments/thoughts about the film version?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Greymantle]

Hmm... I don't know too well, though I'm sure somone around here does. I know that the Tolkien family was responsible for getting J.R.R's name off of the project. There's also this.
http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=891
Hope that helps some...

 

[ReadWryt]

Moriarty,

I assure you that, in a country where "Shakespear in Love" could win so many awards and have such success in the box office, there is no problem with Americans and their understanding of language. The Screenplay was written by 3 New Zealanders, and that part of the world seems to have a problem THINKING that Americans can't understand...this is the reason why the US release of Mad Max had all of Mel Gibson's lines dubbed by an American.

As for the other, it's not really the representation of Peoples and Places that are the problem, although through out the books these seem to be quite adequately described, but indeed it's the ACTIONS of the Characters and the invention of previously non-existent scenes that don't seem to have any relevence to the story, and certainly are confusing when one has heard so many people have stated that the scenes that have been cut were removed for the sake of time constraints...

 

[Moriarty]

ReadWryt,

'Shakespeare in love' is hardly Shakespeare .......isn't this the very point this forum is making?
But I understand what your saying ..... personally if I had a say in these things I would never make allowances for race, culture, or language since these differences are what makes travel so interesting and the reason many people see these things ( and read etc ) is often partially educational (as well as for entertainment of course.
A good example would be a badly subtitled foreign movie where the movie appears naff because of the corny subtitling or dubbing (I am thinking of one version of 'Crouching Womat,Hidden Donkey' I saw)when if the film is seen in it's original language or even with good dubbing the true meaning, intention, and eloquence is understood. (In accordance with the above statement I will not translate 'naff' and 'corny' ... and you will have to ask Brit for the meaning should you not already understand). No insults intended honest .... I am in Singapore and find people always love the colloquialisms of a language - as I do.

Anyway the point is ... why change great lines like 'fly you fools' which roll of the tongue with elegance.

I also think that it will be the representation of the people and places, as well as the actions of those characters, that will jarr with a lot of people who have read the books. Everyone will have built up their own very personal image of what those people and places look like... as well as what they do in terms of actions..... this is unavoidable as your image of any character will slightly differ from mine (and everyone else's). This is why this particular thread exists surely ..... because many people here don't agree with Peter Jacksons' free interpretation of the books .... particulary the obvious commercialism that it involves.

 

[Greymantle]

Just saw your earlier post, Mor... I, for one, loved the music (what little there was!) for the BBC radio version, even the somewhat weird Elf-music. I thought "Upon Caras Ghaladon," while a little corny, caught the mood of Lothlorien perfectly. The short "Elrond-theme" from the end, I thought was excellent-- the two voices mingling and dancing in a very English style. The one bit of music I didn't really care for was the main theme, it was very bland...

 

[Moriarty]

Hi Greymantle,

Really !! ? I loved ( and still do )the main theme of the BBC version. I think the Elf stuff I didn't like cos they always chose to get choirboys to sing angelically for it !. I listened to a bit of the new movie music but felt it could be for any movie really. Christ !!I hope they don't re-release some of the truely awful heavy(ish) metal bands Lord of the Rings songs now the movies are coming out.

I really thought the Rohan ballads style ( BBC LOTR Version )( very Nordic) and Treebeards song ( Welsh male voice choir/last night of the promos like ) were great though.

But acting wise ( even only voice ) ....difficult to beat the Shakespearian types like Micheal Horden as Gandalf ... his voice will aways be Gandalf for me now I'm afraid. Ian Holme was Frodo in that. The guy who did Gollum in that though was awesome/brilliant unbeatable. I hope the actor taking on that part in the new movies listened to the tapes and got that right! Still have the tapes and listen to them fairly regularly. Even the BBC radio Hobbit version wasn't bad ( except for that Gandalf pronounciation I mentioned earlier).... The American radio version of the Hobbit was really crap though ..... their idea of a radio play is actors saying the dialog and everything else narrated.

Hmmm you may of guessed I am a big fan of the Beeb Radio version!

 

[Greymantle]

I have all those on tape... I DETESTED the American Hobbit. I listen to it once and never did again. The dwarf voices are the most disgusting, drawling things...it's terrible!
I, too, quite enjoyed the BBC Hobbit. The music was strange synthetic stuff, but it had a quirky appeal that began to grow on me. And about Gandalf... yes, they say Gan-DALF and raise the inflection, if I remember correctly. It's been a while.
As I was a boy chorisrter for five years I adore that sort of music... so Boromir's dream and Gwahir's song are both great, IMO. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields music was tremendous-- at once exhilirating and immensely maleacholy. I wish Tolkien could have heard it, it's perfect.
I agree about the song of the Ents, too.... so very rousing. Would type more but I'm late for choir. All I'll say is that I wish I could find more of Stephen Oliver's work!

 

[Elbereth547]

wow! I hadn't even heard about the Orc-pods, but it is definitly not comforting! I was really annoyed with the whole Arwen thing. What about Eowyn? she was so much better! I REALLY hope this movie doesn't turn out so bad!!

 

[ReadWryt]

Who said "Shakespear in Love" was Shakespear? I was just saying that the American Audience understood the language well enough is all...

 

[Moriarty]

Greymantle,

I understand that the CD version of the Beeb's LOTR has the music of Stephen Oliver on an extra CD... but sadly I only have the tapes so haven't heard that .... I would like to convert all my tapes to MP3 but haven't worked out how to do it yet cos tapes tend to deteriorate!
Long ago I was also in the choir Grey... but we all left when they didn't pay us for a wedding ..... we were a mercenary choir ...ever since it has been an all girl choir.

 

[Thorin]

Shakespeare in Love sucked big time and how it won Best Picture over Saving Private Ryan is beyond me to even comprehend....probably voted by the same people in the media who are praising PJ now for making such a true rendition of JRR's LoTR.

Anyway, back on topic now.....Down with PJ! And Down with the ignorant media promoting it and dragging JRR through the mud with their stupid, uninformed comments about ME...

 

[Reoko]

this is my oppion about the whole thing
May the dreaded swan boat sail over your grave peter jackson
and Glorfindel's white horse personaly pee on it

 

[Radagast]

Full Monty

First I'd like to thank the person who posted the link on the Tolkien family rift due to the film. I also have to ask Greymantle if his "Ecky ecky ecky pitang..." is from the knights who no longer say "Nee".

Anyway, as for language and dialect, I'm an american from Los Angeles, and somehow I was able to watch and understand Train Spotting, The Full Monty, and Mel Gibson in Hamlet. Although The Full Monty was probably the hardest to hear. It's amazing how they didn't need to "Americanize" these. I wonder if the director of TLoTR ever saw these films.

 

[Beorn]

Hey, could you get the LA Times from...two days ago...that is wednesday. See if there is an article on LotR in there. I couldn't scan it today; no scanner big enough for newspaper

 

[ReadWryt]

This isn't so much a "Change" gripe as it is an Interpretation Gripe. What I'm seeing so far of the film is making me realize that it's too damned "Celtic". I was willing to overlook the Enya stuff, as her musical style does, in my mind, evoke certain aspects of the Elven Culture, but the Hobbits are practically a bunch of Leprechans in the film. Dancing jigs at Bilbo's party and generally carrying on as though they were partying in the second class steerage of the Titanic fer chrissake!

If there is one thing I know about Tolkien it's that he had a great distain for Celtic Folk Lore, Celtic culture and most of all the popular version of all things Celtic.

Needless to say they are not Celtic! Neither are the tales. I do know Celtic things (many in their original languages Irish and Welsh), and feel for them a certain distaste; largely for their fundimental unreason.

from the Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien Yr. 2000 edition Letter # 19

One more example of how P.J. has striven to keep the movies in the spirit that Tolkien would have approved of....

 

[Radagast]

LA Times

I think I know which article your talking about. I'll see if I still have it. I think I do, if so, It's at work.

Does anyone know where I can buy the BBC radio version of The Hobbit and TLoTR that everyone was talking about. They sound interesting. Would Borders Books or Barnes&Noble be able to order them? I usually don't shop online. Anyone know off-hand?

Thanks in advance

 

[Talierin]

I've seen them at every single B & N I've been in recently. They're usually on the aisle table displays.