What change in the movies ticks you off the most?

[WARDNINE]

Geez.
Wait before I start...
I am a Tolkien fan since childhood. I love em, love em, they are the greatest books ever written, I read them all the time. Finish one, start another, in no particular order.
I hate having to say that every time I start discussing this movie.
But here are my points.
Tolkien wrote those books AS entertainment.
Although I personally believe they were divinely inspired, I also realize he wrote them for people's enjoyment.
Tolkien sold the rights to the movie for less than $15000. Period. I can't very well sell you my car and then bitch about how you drive it.
JRR Tolkien is dead. Peter Jackson is alive. Two very different artists.
I watched "Jesus Of Nazareth" and was able to understand that it was "Based on the Bible" not the Bible itself.
"O Brother Where Art Thou" is based on the Odyssey, one of my favorite books as a child. Totally different deal, but cool flick.
I am famous for criticizing movies. I am a real treat to take to the theater. I don't like many movies.
But Peter Jackson realized that a 6 hour movie is not acceptable, not since GWTW.
You cannot have the actors you want and the crews you want and expect them to devote not 2 but 4 years in New Zealand.
YES, I was irritated at some leave-outs and add-ins. I will probably have a 200 dollar phone bill next month just from discussing all things Tolkien with my family, who live 2500 miles away.
But the fact of the matter is, it is a beautiful movie. The misses are far outweighed by the hits.
Friggin' Hobbiton is GORGEOUS. Elijah Wood is PRECIOUS. The Black Riders are the scariest thing I have ever seen onscreen, hands down. I will go see it again and again. I love that people keep asking me questions. My favorite one so far is, "Gandalf comes back, right? Right? Answer me!" to which I smugly reply, "Guess you have to read the books or wait til December." Most of them have started reading the books.
My point is, as I have posted elsewhere, I can enjoy this little trinket of a movie just like I enjoy cheesy Tolkien calendars and the like. Is it as great as the books? Hell no! Nothing could be, not with a zillion dollars and a hundred thousand years. But it's just another add-on to a collection I love. Books-incomparable. Other stuff- nifty. That's all. If you miss seeing it on the big screen, I think you may be doing yourself a disservice. Here's a thought. (Hee hee..) Pay for Kate and Leopold or whatever and go into the LOTR theater. That way, you stand by your boycott, but you can see what you've been chatting about.
My sis took her kids to Johnny Neumonic (or whatever...) but she went into the LOTR room. Big whoop. You still paid for a movie, right?

Oh, and on most every list circa 2000 AD, FOTR topped as "Book of the Century". In more than one poll, it made "Book of the Millennium". Tolkien made "Author of the Century", to the chagrin of the 'idiots in the know'. To them I say, pun fully intended, "Put that in your pipe and smoke it."
These were B&N, Amazon, etc. type pollings of the masses.

 

[Todd1700]

Right On Minas

Good post. It more strongly supports a point that I tried to make in another thread about how lucky it is that this story wasn't butchered beyond recognition. Can you imagine trying to tell this story in one 3 hour film? It could have happened. I for one am thrilled to have 3 movies to bring this story to the screen even if I don't agree with every scene or variation from the book.

 

[Samwise]

DOWN WITH PJ!! DOWN WITH PJ!!! Now come on people, you have to give the guy some credit. He's not a very experienced in making hit films, and NO ONE has ever taken on doing the LOTR without making the film an animated one. If he were to do the entire book exactly, the movie would be 4 1/2 h. long. And you also need some humour added into the movie like with the skeleton instead of a rock in Moria. He did very good for a small movie director. In my opinion, the movie was excellent. I've already seen it twice, both in the opening week and I'm going to buy the movie as soon as it comes out. You should be glad that he actually took on the movie. Not even Spielburg thought of that. I'm very glad PJ made the movie. Even if you've never read the books, the movie is very interesting. You have to forgive him cutting out Tom Bombadil, that part doesn't have a large effect on the whole book. Even if Tolkien cut it out, it wouldn't make a difference to the book, except that you wouldn't see Merry and Pippin almost eaten by old man willow. PJ put Arwen in the movie more than she is in the book because he wanted to show how much she love Aragorn, that she was willing to give up her immortality to marry him. Even with the cutting out of the part when Gandalf battles the Wargs near Moria, one of my favorite parts, was hardly noticed by anyone. PJ did a very good job at making the film. The only thing I would change is the meeting of Frodo and Strider, and the fact that Frodo is too perfect, with no dirt on his face and looking too young. But even with that, I love the movie. I don't think any of us at the Forum could do a better job and get as good a rating as PJ did.

 

[Mithiril]

Next time you watch it, notice how dirty everyone is, even Frodo...am I the only one who notices wierd things like that? Even their hands are always dirty, with no fingernails to speak of (except Saruman...he has such feminine hands, with those long fingernails)

I didn't think EW was too perfect, he got dirty like everyone else. He is younger than was written, but as I've said before, I thought it added something rather than taking away from the story.

 

[Lynn]

For not mentioning that it was ALSO Frodo's birthday, the Orcs from pods threw me, Arwen warrior goddess REALLY had me scratching my head.........for a second I didn't know WHAT movie I was watching, Boromir handling the ring on Cahadras.......Making Merry and Pippin look like cartoon characters.... I know they have a sense of humor, but they are certainly not the buffoons they are made out to be, The way Frodo parted from the Company, and the others watching as he and Sam scrambled up the other bank.

My question is, "Why? Why did they feel they had to change things? Some of them are major/sacred parts of the story.

I'm not so sure I want to see the next installment. Who knows, they may have Frodo and Sam riding on the back of Shelob to the Cracks 'O Doom..........But I most likely will go, just to see what mess they made of the next book.

 

[daisy]

re: midas and the joseph

Yeah Minas, sounds like we are getting our information from the same source because this (Entertainment Weekly) is where I read that LOTR was originally going to be one or two films, but when New Line took over, they walked into the meeting saying, well, shouldn't it be three?

Thejoseph, or thejosehp or the posef or whatever:

I don't believe that I ever stated I supported the success of the film, or commercialism.... I just feel that if Fellowship of the Ring, the Jackson version, had flopped, things would have been much worse in the next few years for Tolkein purists, fans, and/or movie haters, because the film studio would have had to release something in order to attempt to recoup the huge losses that would probably have sunk their studio. Therefore they would have edited the films to appeal to these nameless, faceless masses you keep obsessing over, and you would have seen film renditions of your beloved Tolkein that would send you screaming from the theatre. This is my opinion. However, we will probably never know because FOTR looks like it will eventually earn back all 270 million dollars spent on the entire six hour trilogy .

As for my being an infant, it has been about thirty years, two university degrees, one child and countless pet fish since I could claim that distinction -

I simply do not like the terms 'fascist', 'feminazi' and the like being bandied around as if they can in any way be applied, in scope or context, to the experience of communicating in this forum or loving these books. Tolkein himself, having lived through true fascism and nazism, would chide you himself, dear.

 

[TheJospeh]

Actually

It would be very difficult to have a meaningful conversation about "the Lord of the Rings" without using words like facism and fascist. But certainly your two university degrees--what were they in Sociology and Economics?--should have taught you that.

Sincerely,
The Joseph

 

[daisy]

Dear Joe,

I have had many lovely conversations about these literary works without ever needing to use the words in question.

Now what has got your back up little kitten?

No, I am not a recipient of the degrees so mentioned. Was this a subtle jab at poor Daisy?

I have degrees in English/Psychology and Education.
Do with me what you will,dear.

Daisy

 

[TheJospeh]

Ah...

Who said anything about lovely? Just you, it seems. I too have had many lovely conversations about Tolkien without using those words. However, I have never had a meaningful--in that context I'm assuming an in-depth conversation on the overall themes and ideas of the novel--without those words coming into use.

Sincerely,
The Joseph

P.S. I'm afraid I can't criticize an English degee, the most powerful--in my mind at least--degree a person can get with the exception of philosophy.

 

[Grond]

Grond has had many meaningful conversations about JRRT since my first reading in 1973 and not once have I ever discussed Fascism. The author would have been appalled at the thought. If TheJoseph had ever read any of JRRT's own writings on the subject, he would realize his error in reading into the works more than was intended.

You, TheJoseph, are one of those wayward individuals that the author warned us about. People who try to read hidden meanings and allegory into his works. The author said these were not his intentions while he lived and both his writings and his legacy continue that message after his death. You, however appear too tied up in your own learned and "misguided" concepts to see the writing on the wall.

By the way, a philosphy degree (outside of matriculation) never put any food on the table. I would be more impressed if you had a degree in garbage disposal repair. It would be more practical.

 

[ReadWryt]

TheJoseph,

If you wish to say that you have never had an in depth conversation about these books without bringing up Political Subjects then simply say that. I find it repugnant that you, through your posts, imply that anyone not looking for some Political Underpinnings in a Mythology that the author claimed to have written merely for "..anybody who likes a good and exciting tale..." is missing something that apparently you alone can find.

 

[LotR_Girl]

Whata hell...???
Didn't C da movie but know what we're talkin 'bout...
NO TOM BOMBADIL, that's wha I hate!!! And that stupid Liv!!! She could wait 3rd movie, for God's sake!!! She won't die...unfortunately. And orc named Lurtz?!!! Peter is insane, I'm tellin' ya!!! And he calls himself Tolkien-fan... Fat, stupid, rich...
Huh...I'm OK now!!!

 

[TheJospeh]

sigh

Actually, I know all about JRRT's writings about the tale being simply a great tale. And it truly is one. However, a meaningful conversation entails literary analysis in the context the word was originally used in. Also, I would point out that what author's put in their forward is not always the truth. Mark Twain, for example, wrote before "Huckleberry Finn" that no meaning should be attributed to any form of literary analysis. As Americans, you well know that book was pivotal for launching your literature. Furthermore, it is impossible to write a novel without allegory. Read Jung, read anything about literature and you will see! Therefore, I think it ridiculous that a writer who was writing during World War 2 and fought in World War 1 could avoid such themes. And even literally classifying the kingdom's in the book requires Fascism as a term. Sauron and Saruman are dictators.

Sincerely,
The Joseph

P.S. It is not that I am part of the dangerous few who over-analyze but you are part of the dangerous many who fail to attribute meaning to anything. Books can be read on more than one level! Open your eyes and see the great world about you!

 

[Grond]

Re: sigh

Originally posted by TheJospeh
...P.S. It is not that I am part of the dangerous few who over-analyze but you are part of the dangerous many who fail to attribute meaning to anything. Books can be read on more than one level! Open your eyes and see the great world about you!

TheJoseph, I didn't know that we had met or that you knew what my personal views were on any issue other than this one. And, until now, I have never been accused of being closed minded on this forum, even by those whose opinions conflicted with mine.

I guess this all just boils down to you having a degree in philosphy and having an off the chart IQ and we mere mortals just being unable to understand what would make the world, both literary and real, run more effeciently and effectively. We should just leave that to the intellectual supermen and do as we're told to do and think as we're told to think. Right? Wait a minute, if the TheJoseph knows everything and we know nothing.... and TheJoseph runs everything and we simply do what he says...... wait a minute... isn't that a dictatorship???? Isn't that Fascism???

 

[DGoeij]

I'm glad my mother always kicks my b**t every time I get pretentious about going to university. Only when I don't trip over my untied shoe laces all by myself, that is.
I think the tone in your post is a little pretentious Joseph. Besides, professor Tolkien himself stated in his introduction to LOTR that the deeper meaning of his story wasn't there. Now one can always place a piece of writing in the context of the time it is written, but a lot of stories, happen to be stories, not statements.
Could we leave the fascism thing out? Thanks.

 

[TheJospeh]

Grond

I don't have a degree in philosophy. Nor have I ever claimed to. Nor have I ever claimed that my high IQ made me a better leader of men than you.

If you assume the only significance a book has is put forth in the author's forward than you have a small mind.

Sincerely,
The Joseph

 

[daisy]

I would also like to distance this discussion from fascism - maybe, Joe, if you would like to further your philisophical inquiry into the LOTR allegorical dictatorships and parallelism with World wars, you could start a thread dealing with said issues.

Also, I would put Sauron down as a tyrant re: tyranny, before I would deal with dictatorship. I think he goes beyond the mortal definition of dictator.

I also think you indirectly complimented me on my little English degree. It is true that I do not have a degree in philosophy, although I did study it in university as part of my compulsories. Although I do agree with Grond - I would much rather have mastered small engine repair!!!

Do you not think it is more than a little disrespectful to disregard Tolkein's plea for 'take this at face value'? He was definitely not of the same ilk as the tongue in cheek Mark Twain.

Anyway, back to Middle Earth.....

 

[pixieamalthea]

Mithiril:

of course their hands are dirty...and of course, in general, they all looked dirty in the movie.....I think everyone noticed that.
So no, you're not the only one that notices those things.
If they weren't dirty at all, then people would even notice that....

Seeming "dirty" made everything more realistic and believable.

 

[TheJospeh]

Daisy

Well almost everyone else on this board has used words incorrectly so you might as well not be exempt. Mortal definitions? You're limiting the definition of the word far beyond the point I would. A difference of opinion then, except the dictionary agrees with me.

Sincerely,
The Joseph

 

[druid]

I haven't had the time to read through all the comments in this tread but I wonder if people realise that Jackson's orginal reason for using LOTR was to showcase a new style of special effects, supposedly better than CGI espicially in the area of fire, ie balrog

but of course he soon realised what a gem he had, well I hope he did

Have to say I had such doubts about the changes, and I'm still not totally impressed, of course I'd like for nothing to be changed and I'd sit for hours on end to watch it all

but this really wasn;t for the fans of the book, this was for the people out there who haven;t as yet had the joy of reading these splendid pieces of art

I would nearly forgive him after I saw the look on my friends face after we came out from the show, she had not only never red any of tolkiens work, but had been looking at me like a complete lunatic when I was counting the days to the release, but now I think I might just persuade her to read first the hobbit and then the trilogy