What did the 🧌Orcs/👹Uruk make Merry drink? Was he pretending?

[yellow15]

In the movie, when Merry and Pippin were riding on the Orcs backs, Pippin told the Orcs that Merry is sick, so the Orcs gave him this brownish drink, and then Merry choked on it, and then Merry told Pippin he's fine and not to worry about him.

What was in the drink? And was Merry really sick or just pretending? if so, why did he do that? 🤔

 

[Gandalf White]

In the movie, when Merry and Pippin were riding on the Orcs backs, Pippin told the Orcs that Merry is sick, so the Orcs gave him this brownish drink, and then Merry choked on it, and then Merry told Pippin he's fine and not to worry about him.


so...was Merry really sick or just pretending? if so, why did he do that? can anyone tell me

Turin claims not to hate the movies, yet goes around posting nonsensical replies to any question he can find. Go figure.

Anyway, Merry really was not feeling well; he pretended that he wasn't sick to encourage Pippin.

 

[yellow15]

Thanks yes it makes more sense to me now! damn poor Merry, he is good, i was cheated as well! i thought he was actually ok after he said so

 

[Bucky]

The only point I can see is to put the orcs off guard & then try to escape when they're not watching the sick captive.

 

[aragil]

It's called bravado, and it happens in the book as well. Recall that in the book Merry is unconscious until Ugluk smears ointment on his forehead and forces the orc liquor down his throat. He barely recovers consciousness, and is in obvious pain, yet he cheerfully says to Pippin:
"'Hullo, Pippin!' he said. 'So you've come on this little expedition, too? Where do we get bed and breakfast?"

This is how Hobbits (and from what I've heard, the British) are. They don't want to admit they are beaten- they will act cheerful instead. Later on in the books, after Merry and Pippin escape from the Orcs, we get more of the same:

They turned and walked side by side slowly along the line of the river. Behind them the light grew in the East. As they walked they compared notes, talking lightly in hobbit-fashion of the things that had happened since their capture. No listener would have guessed from their words that they had suffered cruelly, and been in dire peril, going without hope towards torment and death; or that even now, as they knew well, they had little chance of ever finding friend or safety again.

 

[Greenwood]

This is how Hobbits (and from what I've heard, the British) are.

Yes. During WWII at the battle for the Arnhem bridge over the Rhine a force of British Airbourne troops were cut off and surrounded by a much larger force of German troops. The Germans sent a soldier over under a white flag to discuss surrender terms with the British. The British response was that they didn't have room to take all the German soldiers prisoner and the Germans should fight it out! When the British troops were finally overwhelmed by the Germans, the German commander complimented the British commander on the fierce, house-to-house resistance they had put up and that they must have had a lot of experience. The British commander's response was: "No, this was our first time. We will be much better next time."

 

[joxy]

Turin claims not to hate the movies, yet goes around posting nonsensical replies to any question he can find.
Merry really was not feeling well.

Fascinating logic here:
To say the drink scene is "another of PJ's random additions" is to make a "nonsensical" reply.
To make one reply that you think is nonsensical is to be counted as proof of "hatred".
I really did think we'd disposed of this whole "hate" thing.

It's obvious that the drink thing is vaguely connected with the book scene, but it's so transformed and distorted that I wouldn't blame anyone for not seeing, or acknowledging, the connection. I've always found the connection difficult, and found the film scene a "nonsensical" addition, leading to the usual thought: "who knows why?"!
Why on earth couldn't the guy stick with what he was given, which is so much better than this weird invention?
The understatement of the year, so far: I guess most people wouldn't be "feeling well" after a long trek slung around an orc's neck!
Actually the orc trek is one of the best things in the film, like most of the first hour of it. The few invented intrusions only knock it down a few grades from perfection!

 

[Bucky]

It's called bravado, and it happens in the book as well.

No, you're confusing two things here....

'Bravado' or 'cheeriness' as you two call it & pretending you're sick.
That's two different things.

It's not like Merry drank the orc liquor & after they said "Can't take his medicine (blood?)", Merry goes, 'Ha! Made you look! I'm not really sick!"

 

[aragil]

Bucky- Now you're cornfusing me. I don't think Merry was just "pretending to be sick." Obviously he was more than just sick, as the blood running down his face shows. Yet, in spite of the obviousness of his condition, he still tells Pippin not to worry. That's bravado in my book, just as illustrated by Greenwood's example of the paratroop commander. However, bravado does not need to be directed at the enemy to be effective.
In fact, just to please joxy, here's the bravado definition from ye olde OED:

Boastful or threatening behaviour; ostentatious display of courage or boldness; bold or daring action intended to intimidate or to express defiance; often, an assumption of courage or hardihood to conceal felt timidity, or to carry one out of a doubtful or difficult position.

IMO the bit about "to carry one out of a doubtful or difficult position" couldn't be more spot on.

joxy-

from the books:
'Now for the other!' said Uglúk. Pippin saw him go to Merry, who was lying close by, and kick him. Merry groaned. Seizing him roughly Uglúk pulled him into a sitting position, and tore the bandage off his head. Then he smeared the wound with some dark stuff out of a small wooden box. Merry cried out and struggled wildly.
The Orcs clapped and hooted. 'Can't take his medicine,' they jeered. 'Doesn't know what's good for him. Ai! We shall have some fun later.'
But at the moment Uglúk was not engaged in sport. He needed speed and had to humour unwilling followers. He was healing Merry in orc-fashion; and his treatment worked swiftly. When he had forced a drink from his flask down the hobbit's throat, cut his leg-bonds, and dragged him to his feet, Merry stood up, looking pale but grim and defiant, and very much alive. The gash in his forehead gave him no more trouble, but he bore a brown scar to the end of his days.
'Hullo, Pippin!' he said. 'So you've come on this little expedition, too? Where do we get bed and breakfast?'
'Now then!' said Uglúk. 'None of that! Hold your tongues. No talk to one another. Any trouble will be reported at the other end, and He'll know how to pay you. You'll get bed and breakfast all right: more than you can stomach.'


From the Movie:
{We see Merry unconscious with a gash on his forehead. He groans}
Pippin: Merry? Merry? Wake Up.
{Orc next to Merry drinks liquid out of a flask}
Pippin: My friend is sick. He needs water. Please!
Uglúk: Sick is he? {laughing} Give him some medicine, boys!
{Orc pours drink down Merry's throat. Merry wakes up choking}
Pippin: Stop it!
Uglúk: Can't take his draught! {Orcs laugh and jeer}
Pippin: Leave him alone!
Uglúk: Why? You want some? Huh? Then keep your mouth shut.
Pippin: {whispers} Merry.
Merry: {looking pale, but also grim and defiant} Hullo Pip.
Pippin: You're hurt.
Merry: {whispering} I'm fine. It was just an act.
Pippin: An act?
Merry: See? {smiling} I fooled you too.
{Pippin half smiles and shakes his head in disbelief}
Merry: {no longer smiling} Don't worry about me, Pippin.

Unless you consider the conflation of the liquor with the ointment to be confusing, or the phrase "keep your mouth shut" as being wildly different from "hold your tongues", then I don't see how the scene is "transformed and distorted" beyond recognition in the film, or even how it would be difficult to recognize. It is IMO quite close both in language and feel to the original. It is certainly not an "invention" (never thought I'd see so much negative connotation on that word!).

I would say that the 'usual' thought of "who knows why" seems to be generally preceeded by the thought of "don't think too hard", else the significance of the scene is relatively easy to come up with. It is, as I said, an instance of Hobbit bravery and bravado- something which Tolkien speaks about quite often, from Bilbo alone in Gollum's cave to Frodo in the Barrow-Wight's mound. Remember the quote from later in the same chapter:

"No listener would have guessed from their words that they had suffered cruelly, and been in dire peril, going without hope towards torment and death; or that even now, as they knew well, they had little chance of ever finding friend or safety again."

Since there is rarely a narrative voice in the movie, the only way to convey the idea is through showing Merry and Pippin speaking 'lightly' or 'defiantly' in such circumstances. IMO the Orc draught scene achieves this brilliantly.

 

[joxy]

I don't see how the scene is "transformed and distorted" beyond recognition in the film, or even how it would be difficult to recognize. It is IMO quite close both in language and feel to the original. It is certainly not an "invention" (never thought I'd see so much negative connotation on that word!).
IMO the Orc draught scene achieves this brilliantly.

First, thanks for the quotation from the book; it confirms my opinion, which was, of course, based on it, and on the whole chapter that contains it.
The whole orc chase is transformed and distorted. The book scene takes place during the exhausting run that P&M are forced to do, and it's all about the orcs successfully reviving them to even greater efforts. In the film, we don't see P&M having to run at all - that's a pity, but until now I didn't think it made all that much difference. Now though, we find that the film scene, of P asking for the draught for M, is meant to be linked with the deliberate and successful attempt at healing by the orcs, and I realise how much we've missed. The book scene is a compact grim drama with, certainly, that hobbit bravado; in comparison the film scene is a confusing couple of minutes not far removed from the bad old days of P&M as slapstick comedians. Luckily it only IS a couple of minutes, and then the orc chase resumes its interest and excitement. The language is different certainly, but the whole feel of the thing scarcely bears comparison. It is loosely linked with the book scene, but IS an invention as it stands - not that inventions need ALWAYS to be negative - remember the falling staircase?!
If this is "brilliant", the "real" thing, played by the same people, and directed by the same man, would have been a supernova.

 

[aragil]

As I see it there are two differences between the books scene and the movies, which slightly changes the complexion of this scene:
The first is the size and hardihood of the Uruk-hai. In the books they were large for Orcs, but still smaller than a man. They were certainly strong, but even then it would be difficult for them to carry the two Hobbits all the way across Rohan. The Uruk-hai in the movie are huge- bigger than most men, and easily able to carry the two Hobbits. Which of course brings up the point that Merry and Pippin in the movies would never have been able to keep up with the pace of the Uruk-hai, had they ever been put onto the ground. It still bothers me in the book that when Merry and Pippin are forced to run, they actually outpace the three hunters- Merry, Pippin, and the Orcs run across Rohan in two days, while it take Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn four days to accomplish the same feat! And I thought Aragorn was supposed to be "the most hardy of living men"! One last point about the size of the Uruk-hai: it would have been quite impossible to film Dominic and Billy (as Hobbits) running along side the Uruk-hai, as the Hobbit actors would be too tall proportional to the Orc actors. The "carrying" sequences still required camera trickery, but it was of a relatively easy sort.
The second difference is that the Movie scene is an amalgam of several scenes from the book- the one in which Pippin first wakes up and the orcs argue, the one in which Merry is revived and the two Hobbits are first forced to run, and the later scene where Pippin ducks off on his own to drop the brooch. All of this (including the Orcs 'arguing') is accomplished in some 20 lines. Therefore I haven't included all of the book lines which pertain to the movie scene, the only important ones (for this discussion) being where Pippin thinks "Where was Merry?", and another bit where he thinks "I wonder if Merry is much hurt."

In spite of these two differences, the movie scene (IMO) plays exactly like the books: Pippin worries about Merry, Merry is revived by the Orcs, who laugh and jeer at his discomfort, and then Merry tries to cheer Pippin up with a bit of bravado. The language is similar ("Can't take his draught"/"Can't take his medicine", "Shut your mouth"/"Hold your tongues", and "Hullo Pip"/"Hullo Pippin"). If you can honestly say that this scene is only "loosely" based on the books, or that it is "transformed and distorted", then I would say that you really did want a word-for-word translation from books to film. As far as I can tell there is nothing confusing about the scene, and Merry and Pippin certainly are not acting like clowns. Personally I'd say that Merry's dialog of "I'm fine. It was just an act. See? I fooled you too." is of a more serious nature than his book line of "Where do we get bed and breakfast?"; and Pippin says nothing remotely funny or clown-like. Certainly some of the motivation is missing from the scene (needing to heal the Hobbits so that they'll run), but I think that is the case in virtually every scene in the movie- it's impossible to present all the details of every scene in the books, there's simply too much of it!

 

[joxy]

As I see it there are two differences between the books scene and the movies....
It still bothers me in the book that when Merry and Pippin are forced to run, they actually outpace the three hunters....
The second difference is that the Movie scene is an amalgam of several scenes from the book....
...then I would say that you really did want a word-for-word translation from books to film.
....it's impossible to present all the details of every scene in the books, there's simply too much of it!

Those two differences do have a lot going for them.
I said before that I regretted not having P&M's run, but that it didn't matter too much; I said that with your point in mind, that it would have been difficult to film. From the point of view of the book though, this is actually Tolkien at his best, in his grimmest mood: forced marches, and runs, can have some amazing and terrible effects, and that adequately explains P&M's remarkable feat.
Again, the combination of scenes is a good idea in principle. Given the time that would have been used up on P&M's run, a longer combination scene could have been given a lot more detail and attention and been very effective. As it is, the couple of minutes we have is almost a waste of time, and in particular the "sick/fine/act/fooled you" dialogue leaves me as baffled as ever. The look of the "medicine" swilling was the source of my oblique comment on the old P&M comic act.
No, I don't want an "every-word-for-every-word" "translation", but it would be a lot better if more of the very small amount of dialogue we actually get was taken from the original source, which, after all, is a lot more than than adequate in volume!
And yes, there is far too much detail, too, in the books to represent. So, why actually change any of it?

 

[Bucky]

Obviously he was more than just sick, as the blood running down his face shows.


No, He chokes because they pour too much horrible drink down his throat....
.
The blood IS the orc liquor, not Merry's, as can be seen in the statement "Can't take his blood".

Look at Merry's face when talking to Pippin.
He's fine.

 

[aragil]

Uh, Bucky ...

Pay close attention to the ordering of the following, and I think you'll see a problem with the blood being the liquor:

{We see Merry unconscious with a gash on his forehead. He groans}
Pippin: Merry? Merry? Wake Up.
{Orc next to Merry drinks liquid out of a flask}
Pippin: My friend is sick. He needs water. Please!
Uglúk: Sick is he? {laughing} Give him some medicine, boys!
{Orc pours drink down Merry's throat. Merry wakes up choking}

Notice how we see the gash on Pippin's forehead, and that this is clearly evident before the liquor is poured down his throat? In order for the 'blood' to be the liquor, that orc draught would have to defy not only gravity, but also the laws of causality. No doubt the stuff had some wondrous properties of refreshment, but not even Gatorade can travel uphill or back in time!

 

[Bucky]

Aragil,

I'm confused here......

Have you seen the commentaries?

Dominic Monahan says PJ made him drink that 'orc liquer' until he gagged & spit it up like that.....

The "can't take his blood" comment, I took that to mean there was blood in that liquer.
It sure looks red enough doesn't it?

 

[aragil]

I think (at least according to the subtitles on my DVD) that the line is: "Can't take his draught"- the same as saying he "can't hold his liquor". This (I imagine) is orc pub humor- anybody who spits up a strong drink is a weak drinker, and therefore deserves some derision.
The Orc draught shows up frequently in the books- it provides heat and an unwholesome refreshment. In the books Merry briefly wonders what's in it, but quickly decides that it is probably best not to know. There might have been blood in it, and PJ would certainly be within his rights to interpret it that way, but this is not the blood that I hinted at.

There is a wound on Merry's forehead- both in the books and in the movie. This is the "blood running down his face" which I was referring to. It is on the right side of his face, just below the hairline. In the books it is implied that this happens in the scuffle on Amon Hen, where Merry was lopping off several orc arms and hands before Boromir came to the rescue. I would imagine that we could assume that the same thing happened in the films, 'off-camera'. In any case, it is pretty clear IMO that Merry isn't doing too well, and that he is trying to put on a brave face when he says "Don't worry about me, Pippin."

 

[Gildor]

I heard it as "can't take his grog." Same difference really, though "grog" also strikes me as more Orcish than "draught".

 

[joxy]

Dominic Monahan says PJ made him drink that 'orc liquer' until he gagged & spit it up like that.....
The "can't take his blood" comment....

This guy PJ really does show sometimes that he has a nasty part of his mind.
It's "draught", by the way.

"grog" also strikes me as more Orcish than "draught".

That's the stuff they had in those 1930's pirate swashbucklers, and PJ seems to love those, so it could have been, but no.....

 

[Morgaphry]

Can you imagine how the Fundamentalists would have reacted if they had said "Grog"?
Anyway, Draught is a bit more Tolkien-ish, even if it is Orcs saying it.