What IS Tom Bombadil?

[Gothmog]

Mike, that is a very interesting idea. It would be a good way for Iluvatar to keep an eye on what is happening on Arda without interfering too much.

 

[Tar-Ancalime]

indeed a very,very good idea.

 

[Beorn]

Now here's a question, what is Goldberry? She is the river-daughter, but what species would that be???

 

[Tar-Ancalime]

didn't Lotr say she was an elf of some sort,High~nolodorian maybe?

 

[Iluvatar]

While I agree that it would be nice to imagine Tom Bombadil as Iluvatar keeping tabs on his creation, Tom remains a remarkably poor selection for the job. Tom cared only for his very small realm of power, and would not leave it and cared for little or nothing of what was beyond it. He strikes me asas a self-serving and rather minor maia.

 

[Beorn]

You say that he only cared about himself and his little territory?

(Frodo)'Did you hear me calling, Master, or was it just chance that brought you at that moment?'
Tom stirred like a man shaken out of a pleasant dream. 'Eh, what?' said he. 'Did I hear you calling? Nay, I did not hear: I was busy singing. Just chance brought me thenm if chance you call it. It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering. We guessed you'd come ere long down to the water: all paths lead that way, down to the Withywindle....'

FotR 123-124

So, he frequently recieved news of the outside world...He didn't get the news from the trees themselves because,

As they listened, they began to undertstand the lives of the Forest, apart from themselves, indeed to feel themselves as the strangers where all other things were at home. Moving constantly in and out of his talk was Old Man Willow, and Frodo learned now enough to content him, indeed more than enough, for it was not comfortable lore. Tom's words laid bare the hearts of the trees and their thoughts, which were often dark and strange, and filled with a hatred of things that go free upon the earth, gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning: destroyers and usurpers. It was not called the Old Forest without reason, for it was indeed ancient, a survivor of vast forgotten woods; and in it there lived yet, ageing no quicker than the hills, the fathers of the fathers of trees, remembering times when they were lords. The countless years had filled them with pride and rooted wisdom, and with malice. But non were more dangerous than the Great Willow: his heart was rotten, but his strength was green; and he was cunning, and a master of winds, and his song and thought ran through the woods on both sides of the river. His grey thirsty spirit drew power out of the earth and spread like fine root-threads in the ground, and invisible twig-fingers in the air, till it had under its dominion nearly all the trees of the Forest from the Hedge to the Downs

FotR 127-128
These trees were evil, and Tom was good, so they wouldn't tell him...The only other living thing he speaks about in the forest are Barrow Wights, and they would never tell him, or speak to him.

To re-enforce that he could be Iluvatar:

'Fair lady!' said Frodo again after a while. 'Tell me, if my asking does not seem foolish, who is Tom Bombadil?'
'He is,' said Goldberry, staying her swift movements and smiling.
Frodo looked at her questioningly. 'He is, as you have seem him,' she said in answer to his look. 'He is the Master of wood, water, and hill.'
'Then all this strange land belongs to him?'
'No indeed!' she answered, and her smile faded. 'That would indeed be a burden,' she added in a low voice, as if to herself. 'The trees and the grasses and all things growing or living in the land belong each to themselves. Tom Bombadil is the Master. No one has ever caught old Tom walking in the forest, wading in the river, leaping on the hill-tops under light and shadow. He has no fear. Tom Bombadil is master.'

FotR 122
And, I don't believe that anything ever says exactly what the boundaries of his land (well I can't really say his land after the above quote) are.

 

[Tar-Ancalime]

I think if tom bombadilo ruled all he would be so stressed he'd need prozac weekly.

 

[Iluvatar]

Mike B:

Sure, Tom got information about the outside world, and we know he had a fairly good relationship with Farmer Maggot. But I disagree with you about the significance of his hearing about things outside of his narrowly defined domain. He wouldn't escort Frodo beyond those borders despite knowing the enormity of Frodo's task and the dangers being faced. At the Council of Elrond Gandalf explicitly stated that Bombadil would not take guardianship of the Ring unless he were begged by all the free peoples of the world. So I'm sticking with my suggestion that Bombadil was an insigificant - albeit goodhearted - Maia.

Iluvatar

 

[Gothmog]

Iluvatar,

At the momment I have an open mind on this idea of Mike's. But I have a couple of points to make.

You Said:
"While I agree that it would be nice to imagine Tom Bombadil as Iluvatar keeping tabs on his creation, Tom remains a remarkably poor selection for the job. Tom cared only for his very small realm of power, and would not leave it and cared for little or nothing of what was beyond it. He strikes me asas a self-serving and rather minor maia."

We do not know how much attention Tom paid to the 'outside' world and we do not know if Tom needed to leave his 'small realm' to gain information. What is so poor about this selection if you do not want to be bothered by others.

You also said:
"He wouldn't escort Frodo beyond those borders despite knowing the enormity of Frodo's task and the dangers being faced. At the Council of Elrond Gandalf explicitly stated that Bombadil would not take guardianship of the Ring unless he were begged by all the free peoples of the world. So I'm sticking with my suggestion that Bombadil was an insigificant - albeit goodhearted - Maia."

If Tom were Eru Iluvatar, then he would only intervene in Arda in gravest need when the task is beyond the abilities of those who live in Arda, as when he changed the shape of the world. So if his intent was just to watch the events in Middle-Earth then Tom Bombadil would be a perfect choice, no one would think he was anything special. Don't forget, the view of Eru about the results of Melkor's rebelion in the great song is somewhat different to the views of most of us.

I will give more thought to this view of Tom and look forward to seeing others answers to Mike and yourself.

 

[Tar-Ancalime]

everyone has really good points.

 

[Beorn]

'Who are you, Master?' [Frodo] asked.
'Eh, what?' said Tom sitting up, and his eye glinting in the gloom. 'Don't you know my nameyet? That's the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself, and the nameless? Bu you are young and I am old. Eldest, that's what I am.Marky my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees. Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big Peopl, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'

And no, that dark lord is not Dengen....

The bolded items are things that indicate he may be Iluvatar. I'm not 100% sure (I tried to finish the Sil as quickly as possible), but if he was there before Melkor, in the first age, that would make him at least a Vala.

 

[Talierin]

I still don't think he is Illuvatar.

This is just a thought I'm throwing out. What if Tom was placed upon Arda by Illuvatar or one of the Valar right after Arda was created, before there was plants and etc, to prepare it for growing things?

 

[Iluvatar]

Mike B:

Maybe Tom was Iluvatar; maybe he was a Vala. You have good points, albeit ultimately not thoroughly convincing (to me at least). However, your logic suggesting that he must at least be a Vala if he was here before Melkor is faulty. My understanding is that the Maiar and the Valar both arrived on Ea at essentially the same time. While the Maiar were less powerful than the Valar they were not slaves of the Valar, and so Bombadil could have went to Arda very very early in Ea's history.

Iluvatar

 

[Cian]

Tolkien wrote:

"The One does not physically inhabit any part of Eä."

"There is no 'embodiement' of the creator anywhere in this story or Mythology."

Peter Hastings, citing the description of "he is", said that this seemed to imply Bombadil was God. Tolkien responded: "I really do think you are being too serious besides missing the point" Goldberry and Tom were referring rather to the mystery of names.

Tolkien wrote a lot about Bombadil in Letters actually, but didn't describe him as Vala or Maia either ~ but a purposed "enigma" rather, which is good enough for me.

Spelled sideways (sorta) Bombadil's very name might reveal his true origin:
mad Bilbo!

 

[Lantarion]

LOL
I could imagine Bombadil as a hobbit, if he wasn't one of the eldest living creatures on M-e, and if he was a bit smaller.

 

[Thorondor]

I do not think that He is a nature spirit, I have some quotes i will get them later.

 

[Thorondor]

Many think that Tom Bombadill was a nature spirit because of the quotes:
LotR page 259

Power to defy our Enemy is not in him, unless such power is in the Earth itself.

LotR page 122

He is the Master of wood, water, and hill.

But what of this quote taken from the Silmarillion?
p.10

Thus it came to pass that of the Ainur some abode still with Iluvatar beyond the comfines of the world; but others and among them many of the greatest and most fair, took leave of Iluvatar and descended into it. But this condition Iluvatar made, or it is the necessity of their love, that their power should thence forward be contained and bound in the world, to be within it, forever, until it is complete, so that they are its life, and it is theirs. And therefore they are named the Valar, the Powers of the World.

Now who would be the one that fits these descriptions? For me that would be Aule, but I do not deny that it might be someone else.

 

[Thorondor]

Now to the master of wood, water, and hill part. . .
Sil, page 20

His(Aule) Lordship is over all the substances of which Arda is made. In the Beginning he wrought much in fellowship with Manwe and Ulmo, and the fashioning of all the lands was his labor. He is a smith and a master of all crafts, and he delights in works of skill however small. . .(page 35) Of him comes the love and knowledge of the Earth and of all things that it contains. . the weaver, shaper of wood, and worker of metals; and the tiller and husbandman, though these last and all that deal with things that grow and bear fruit must look also to the spouse of Aule, Yavanna.

Lastly there is the quote from LotR page 259:

And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind.

This from the Sil(page 8) seems to describe Aule the same way:

Of the fabric of Earth had Aule thought. . .but the delight and pride of Aule is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither in possession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work.

There that is my opinion. But I do acknowledge that he may be someone else. It all just depends on what you research. If it was a definitive answer, then there would not be this thread.

 

[gil-estel]

What is Bombadil??

Just wanted to know what you thought-i just can't work it out

 

[Greymantle]

http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118&highlight=bombadil