What Was Eonwe (or Tolkien) Thinking?

[Bucky]

Well, let me start with a preface.

This subject isn't within Quenta Silmarillion, but it's in one of the shorter works contained within the covers of the book 'The Silmarillion'. 'Of The Rings Of Power & The Third Age' to be precise......

The story begins 'Of old there was Sauron the Maia....... he became the greatest & most trusted of the servants of the enemy.....'

'When Thangorodrim was broken & Morgoth overthrown, Sauron put on his fair hue again & did obeisance to Eonwe, the herald of Manwe, & abjured of his evil deeds........ But it was not within the power of Eonwe to pardon those of his own order, & he commanded Sauron to return to Aman & there receive the judgement of Manwe. Then Sauron was ashamed & he was unwilling to to return in humiliation & receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith....... THEREFORE WHEN EONWE DEPARTED HE HID HIMSELF IN MIDDLE-EARTH......'

So why in the world would Eonwe just let Sauron go?

Was he an idiot?
First, he lets Maedhros & Maglor kill the guards protecting the Silmarils & walk away scott free with the jewels, then he just lets the greatest & most trusted of Morgoth's servants, one of the most powerful Maiar, walk away because he doesn't want to take his medicine?

This makes NO sense whatsoever.
Especially in light of the statement in The Simarillion when Utumno is destroyed, 'and Sauron they (the Valar) did not find'.
This statement would imply that the Valar wanted to find Sauron.
Why?
To let him go if he didn't want to repent?
Of course not. To bring him to justice & stop his potential future evil deeds.

It would be like the Allies just letting Hermann Goerring go after he surrendered at the end of World War II.

Now, that's looking at it from inside the story.
From the outside, it's just a weak plot point.
Wouldn't it make much better sense if Tolkien had just written the story that Sauron got away & was never captured?
To me, it's a hole in the story.

"A thought? Anyone?"

 

[Manveru]

from The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power...

Of old there was Sauron the Maia, whom the Sindar in Beleriand named Gorthaur. In the beginning of Arda Melkor seduced him to his allegiance, and he became the greatest and most trusted of the servants of the Enemy, and the most perilous, for he could assume many forms, and for long if he willed he could still appear noble and beautiful, so as to deceive all but the most wary.

from The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power...

When Thangorodrim was broken and Morgoth overthrown, Sauron put on his fair hue again and did obeisance to Eönwë the herald of Manwë, and abjured all his evil deeds. And some hold that this was not at first falsely done, but that Sauron in truth repented, if only out of fear, being dismayed by the fall of Morgoth and the great wrath of the Lords of the West. But it was not within the power of Eönwë to pardon those of his own order, and he commanded Sauron to return to Aman and there receive the judgement of Manwë. Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great. Therefore when Eönwë departed he hid himself in Middle-earth; and he fell back into evil, (...)

It seems that Eonwe wasn't enough wary (!?) to see the trick of Sauron's cunning and he really believed in Sauron's repentance...
But he made a huge mistake (believing or not) to let Sauron go freely...

Originally posted by Bucky:

Now, that's looking at it from inside the story.
From the outside, it's just a weak plot point.
Wouldn't it make much better sense if Tolkien had just written the story that Sauron got away & was never captured?
To me, it's a hole in the story.

Is this "hole" really so annoying... maybe somebody (out of fans-I mean) should try and "fill" it with a fan-fiction on this particular topic: "Encounter of Eonwe with Sauron" or "What did Eonwe really think?" or other...

What do you think about that?
Anyone willing to do so?

 

[Manveru]

One more thing...

I've found this while reading "Letters...":

from Letter 131 to Milton Waldman:

And there is Sauron. In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy and becoming his chief captain and servant. He repents in fear when the First Enemy is utterly defeated, but in the end does not do as was commanded, return to the judgement of the gods. He lingers in Middle-earth. Very slowly, beginning with fair motives: the reorganising and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, 'neglected by the gods', he becomes a reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power ? and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves).

This shows that not only Eonwe wasn't wary enough (Valar, too!!?)... how could that happen?

 

[ely]

Maybe they knew something but didn't want to interfere. Maybe the wanted free peoples to fight by themselves, learn to protect themselves. And they did it, didn't they? They did destroy Sauron without any help from the Valar.

But that's just a thought of course...

 

[Ithrynluin]

Just as Manwë failed to divine Morgoth's evil after his release, so Eönwë believed Sauron's abjuration was genuine. Tulkas and Ulmo saw through Melkor's disguise and knew that he was not reformed, and maybe some among Eönwë's company perceived that Sauron did not truly repent (perhaps only at first). But, as the below quote shows, those who defend authority against rebellion, must not themselves rebel. So it was up to Eönwë what to do in this case (just as it was up to Manwë whether to believe Melkor's reformation or not), even though it might not have been the wisest of choices.

The Silmarillion; Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
...and it seemed to Manwë that the evil of Melkor was cured. For Manwë was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Ilúvatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor’s heart, and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever. But Ulmo was not deceived, and Tulkas clenched his hands whenever he saw Melkor his foe go by; for if Tulkas is slow to wrath he is slow also to forget. But they obeyed the judgement of Manwë; [color=sky blue]for those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel.[/color]

 

[Bucky]

This shows that not only Eonwe wasn't wary enough (Valar, too!!?)... how could that happen?

Well, the Valar have a history of this......

At the breaking of Utumno:

'And Sauron they did not find'

'Deep in forgotten places that cry (Morgoth's cry in Lammoth) was heard. For beneath the ruined halls of Angband, in vaults to which the Valar in the haste of their assault had not descended, Balrogs still lurked, awaiting ever the return of their lord;'

So it was up to Eönwë what to do in this case

Not so.

' But it was not within the power of Eonwe to pardon those of his own order, & he commanded Sauron to return to Aman & there receive the judgement of Manwe.'
So, we're back to square one.

If Eonwe COMMANDED SAuron to return, how did he just get up & leave?
If they had the power to physically detain Morgoth, they certainly could've detained Sauron by force.

As for 'fan fiction', here's mine:

Sauron takes off & is not found in the War Of Wrath by putting on a 'fair hue' which makes him appear as one of the Host Of The West.
And the inhabitants of Middle-earth lived unhappily ever after.

THE END.

 

[Manveru]

Originally posted by Bucky:

As for 'fan fiction', here's mine:

Sauron takes off & is not found in the War Of Wrath by putting on a 'fair hue' which makes him appear as one of the Host Of The West.
And the inhabitants of Middle-earth lived unhappily ever after.

THE END.

Well... that was QUICK

 

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Bucky

Not so.

' But it was not within the power of Eonwe to pardon those of his own order, & he commanded Sauron to return to Aman & there receive the judgement of Manwe.'
So, we're back to square one.

If Eonwe COMMANDED SAuron to return, how did he just get up & leave?
If they had the power to physically detain Morgoth, they certainly could've detained Sauron by force.

It was up to Eönwë to decide whether to

1. Believe Sauron and let him come to Valinor of his own free will

OR

2. To bind Sauron in chains and take him by force

Either way he would be judged in Aman by those greater than himself, not by Eönwë.

Sauron made an honest plea (or so it is said) and Eönwë believed him. All was decided regarding Sauron and there was no need for him to be guarded (as he would be if he refused to repent from the beginning) - thus allowing second thoughts to form in his mind and giving him the chance to escape or hide...

 

[Beleg]

Actually I too think that this was a mistake on Eonwe's part. I believe that the Valar had tended to ignore Sauron too often. Basking in the aftermath of defeating Morgoth, they conveniently forgotten about the menance of Sauron, taking him too lightly. I believe that Eonwe should have precieved that the fair hue of Sauron was only momentary and he had begged for pardon because he had been overwhelmed by the majesty and splendour of the host and because of the fear of humiliation. If that weren't the case then why would Sauron refuse to come infront of the Valar and seek pardon? Manwe only partially fell to the deciet of Morgoth, and even then he was hardly guarded, surely when Eonwe would have captured Sauron, he should have guarded him, since Sauron was virtually the second in command of Morgoth. Seeing his past record, he couldn't have just been let free? Eonwe seriously errered in judgement. If he would have not let Sauron runaway, and would have captured him, bringing him infront of the Valar, then I believe that major evils that followed could have been stopped.

 

[Bucky]

Sauron was virtually the second in command of Morgoth.

Sauron WAS 2nd in command to Morgoth, with the exception of leading the armies, which Gothmog did.

Sauron was left in charge of the war when Morgoth departed in secret to check out the newly arisen Men in the East.

Sauron is called 'the Lieutenant of Melkor' & commanded Angband while Utumno still existed.

Sauron is called 'the greatest of the servants of the enemy' & 'had a part in all his (Morgoth's) deeds'.

Sauron was set up as a 'provincal govenor' if you will in Tol Sirion after the Battle Of Sudden Flame.

I think it's safe to assume Sauron was #2.


BTW, where was Sauron & what was he doing during the 3 ages Melkor was held in captivity?
There's no mention of HIM coming to Morgoth's rescue when the Balrogs saved his butt from Ungoliant.

Is there anything in any of the writings published by CT that give any info?

 

[Eriol]

I don't see what is so odd in assuming that a guy who comes to you pleading for pardon is willing to repent. Sauron came willingly. Why would Eönwë chain him up? He seemed like a nice guy then .

Seriously, I think that Sauron "repented his repentance" only after Eönwë was gone. The talk was like this, as I see it:

S: Forgive me!
E: I can't do that. Come to Valinor.
S: Ok, I'll see you there
E: Great. I'll wait for you then. Nice to chat with you. Bye.

Another question is -- could Eönwë "arrest" Sauron? Could he restrain Sauron's spirit? He did not have any Angainor chain handy. Sauron still could walk "unclad".

As for what was Sauron doing when Morgoth was in the can, that's a mighty good question.

 

[Maedhros]

Originally posted by Bucky
So why in the world would Eonwe just let Sauron go?

I guess the same can be said as to why Manwë let Melkor free in Valinórë. I guess the question would be, why do the Valar do things that seem naive to us? The answer is in an essay called Ósanwe-kenta

If we speak last of the "folly" of Manwë and the weakness and unwariness of the Valar, let us beware how we judge. In the histories, indeed, we may be amazed and grieved to read how (seemingly) Melkor deceived and cozened others, and how even Manwe appears at times almost a simpleton compared with him: as if a kind but unwise father were treating a wayward child who would assuredly in time perceive the error of his ways. Whereas we, looking on and knowing the outcome, see now that Melkor knew well the error of his ways, but was fixed in them by hate and pride beyond return. He could read the mind of Manwë, for the door was open; but his own mind was false and even if the door seemed open, there were doors of iron within closed for ever.
How otherwise would you have it? Should Manwë and the Valar meet secrecy with subterfuge, treachery with falsehood, lies with more lies? If Melkor would usurp their rights, should they deny his? Can hate overcome hate? Nay, Manwë was wiser; or being ever open to Eru he did His will, which is more than wisdom. He was ever open because he had nothing to conceal, no thought that it was harmful for any to know, if they could comprehend it. Indeed Melkor knew his will without questioning it; and he knew that Manwë was bound by the commands and injunctions of Eru, and would do this or abstain from that in accordance with them, always, even knowing that Melkor would break them as it suited his purpose. Thus the merciless will ever count on mercy, and the liars make use of truth; for if mercy and truth are withheld from the cruel and the lying, they have ceased to be honoured.
Manwë could not by duress attempt to compel Melkor to reveal his thought and purposes, or (if he used words) to speak the truth. If he spoke and said: this is true, he must be believed until proved false; if he said: this I will do, as you bid, he must be allowed the opportunity to fulfill his promise.

Sauron had to have wanted to repent for himself. If Eönwë would have forced him to Valinórë, he would have acted the same way as Melkor would.

 

[Bucky]

"I believe it is peace in our time."

- Eonwe waving the Silmarils after Morgoth is bound in chains.....