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When you get attracted to Bad People? But morally you shouldn't?

Taking the topic back to OP's point, I've seen people claim to be "liberal Christians" who in the next breath leap in bed (figuratively speaking) with the most vile, Satanic people imaginable.

Wow. I find it's the other way around. I see daily people who proclaim themselves to be 'conservative christian' do things that are completely opposite from what Jesus says They do 'bad' things. It's pretty clear in the four gospels what Jesus teaches. I fail to see how turning this discussion into praise of christianity hs bringing it back to the OP's point.
(Humans were created by God, chose to sin, and are now fallen creatures who, hopefully, may choose Jesus' gift of a 'paid fine' so to speak. AKA the Gospel/Bible.) :)

... It's 'true' for you if you believe that. You know, a majority of the New Testament was written by Apostle Paul after Jesus physically left the world. Killing in the name of religion through the millennia has been responsible for a lot of death.
 
... It's 'true' for you if you believe that. You know, a majority of the New Testament was written by Apostle Paul after Jesus physically left the world. Killing in the name of religion through the millennia has been responsible for a lot of death.
Thats a very atheist one sided view on it. Crusades wasnt about killing in the name of religion. It was self defense. You could argue same way Middle East conflicts revolves around Palestine. But... if you look at 700 or 800 AD, the Muslims where going into Spain etc. So the response was towards a proxy war.

Usually wars are often about forcing one way of life on another. Whether its regimes that is favorable to that country, or for some other ideological purpose.
In the end, the only losers are the victims of war. Whereas the guy on top reaps the reward
 
Thats a very atheist one sided view on it.

... as opposed to a very evangelical christian one-sided view which has been presented here in this thread?

"it"? what "it" are you specifying? War? I said 'a lot of death' not 'all' deaths.

You appear to be assuming I am an atheist. You know, I believe in Jesus. I do not believe in the American nationalist 'christian' hijacking of Jesus.

In the end, the only losers are the victims of war. Whereas the guy on top reaps the reward

I do agree with this.


Edit: It's not worth bumping this to respond to you herlig9, but no, it isn't the 'prosperity' doctrine. it is in the USA a clear white nationalist 'christian' cult I refer to.
 
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... as opposed to a very evangelical christian one-sided view which has been presented here in this thread?

"it"? what "it" are you specifying? War? I said 'a lot of death' not 'all' deaths.

You appear to be assuming I am an atheist. You know, I believe in Jesus. I do not believe in the American nationalist 'christian' hijacking of Jesus.



I do agree with this.
European Norwegian here. (And i apologized if i assumed, its just i have heard that old argument before of religion being cause of all wars etc, its too easy of an argument.
But i think the issue you might dislike, might be more with "Prosperity Gospel" which going by these bible verses, would just be heresy if you ask me.

Matthew 25:35-40
Luke 14:13-23
James 5:1-6

I know envy is also a sin, but... a donation for a private jet? Is kind of going too far? I guess the fault could also be on the modern day we live in.

- Industrialism creates profit
- Materialism creates grey areas around political outcomes
- Wars and wars

So one loses the spiritual focus and aspect of denying oneself for the sake of others. And even i have struggled with that.

But i think i would be rambling if i just went on.

But when i think of what it means to treat other people. I think of these words

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
 
1) It's a fallen world... that is, Human nature is flawed, always has been always will be.
By flawed I mean, we engage in thoughts or acts that we know we shouldn't do, and don't perform those things we know we should.
That will sound very familiar to some of you so I need not cite the source, except to say it was known long, long before the first century AD. **
You can attribute it to an inherent spiritual flaw, or to how homo sapiens developed through eons.
But which ever attribution you choose, we are stuck with it.
The Jews of the Old testament understood it. The Stoics of the Pre-Christian Roman Republic understood it.
Homer certainly understood it; read the Iliad and/or Odyssey. The Seven Deadly Sins are on display in all their corrupting, yet oh, so banal manifestations.
Most of the world religions have also comprehended fallen human nature, so that goes quite a ways back also, several thousand years BC .**

2) In recognizing , and more importantly, accepting (1) you can see that humanity hasn't made a whole lot of spiritual/moral/ethical progress from at least the time when men first learned to write, to make permanent records of their thoughts, their observations of their fellows, their histories.

3) So if you can accept (1) and (2), then you know you are going to have lifelong, uphill battle against your worst inclinations.
Forewarned is forearmed....it's a real battle and victories are hard-won.
A character in a contemporary comic strip knew this: "Why is the right thing to do so often the most difficult thing to do?"
The converse (which is what the OP is asking) is: Why is the wrong thing to do so often the easiest thing to do?

** For those interested or even just curious about how far back this was recognized, read the CS Lewis essay: Illustrations of the Tau.
The Tau
: Lewis' name for the objective rational and moral order embedded in the cosmos and in human nature. Other names for it include Natural Law or Traditional Morality. Lewis borrows the term from Eastern religions for the sake of brevity and in order to stress its universality. (this definition from several website on CSL and The Tau)
It is in a larger work The Abolition of Man, (yet that little volume is not large at all; my hard copy is 61 pg, and that includes the appendix containing Illustrations of the Tau.)
I recommend reading the entire "Abolition..." ...but for those who merely want to "cut to the chase" of Lewis' Tau, go HERE
 
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Wow. I find it's the other way around. I see daily people who proclaim themselves to be 'conservative christian' do things that are completely opposite from what Jesus says They do 'bad' things. It's pretty clear in the four gospels what Jesus teaches. I fail to see how turning this discussion into praise of christianity hs bringing it back to the OP's point.
The two aren't mutually exclusive, this is just selection bias considering the people who I used to interact with were mostly on the left/liberal end of things, considering I'm generally on the left.
 
Flawed, fault ridden, does not perforce make one diabolically evil.
Are you lazy? Are you envious of someone who wins the lottery? Have you told one of those "little lies" to get out of a social engagement you decided at the last moment to not attend (thereby inconveniencing your host)?
None of those things are limited to Christian morals... a Hindu would tell you those violate his moral laws.
There are enough petty faults (sins if you are a Christian) anyone can easily commit.
Neither side of the political fence has a lock on virtuous behavior, and both sides are quite equally capable (look at history) of some really nasty, vicious behavior.
It's the way the world is.
 
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The two aren't mutually exclusive, this is just selection bias considering the people who I used to interact with were mostly on the left/liberal end of things, considering I'm generally on the left.
'Zaaactly
 
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"all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".... Imagine if Eve had never listened to the serpent in the garden of Eden! This may also be a slightly different topic, but I know a lot of people who are banking everything they've got on "eternal security". It's not my place to determine whether they are truly born again or not, but many of them appear to believe that they can commit any sins they choose so long as they were "saved" at some point in their life. This is scary to me because I know God will never cast us out, but we are capable of making our own decisions. He wouldn't force us to go to heaven. Surely there must be a point in the relationship where a Christian can decide they are done following God. To be His child is to follow and obey Him. If we are choosing to continue in sin, and we are not repenting and trying to mend our ways, I think it would come to the point that he allows us to turn away. Christianity is a choice, not a trap. Just wanted to share.
 
I was off for a while, and missed this thread entirely, but I want to remind everyone to read the Rules Thread.
 
I was off for a while, and missed this thread entirely, but I want to remind everyone to read the Rules Thread.

You earned yourself an 'eye-roll' Squinty. 😆


I think some who believe in whatever sect/division of christian faith may take having special hidden forums catering to them as a ticket of emboldenment to let their version of morality to spill out on the public forums, which is a direct violation of the clearly-stated 'Religion' clause of the rules. Except for the wild-west flame wars of the turn of the century that led to the Religion rule
(and the politics rule), that rule has pretty much always been respected going into this decade. I don't think a thread like this would have been allowed to stand before then. Reading through this, there are clearly those stating their religious views as 'fact', and those who take exception to having those views stated as fact. There is nothing really 'Tolkien' about this thread from what I can see. That is my 2¢
 
the wild-west flame wars of the turn of the century that led to the Religion rule (and the politics rule),
Yes, and to add a little background, threads on these subjects too often degenerated into acrimony and hurt feelings. in fact, an attempt was made to move them to another forum altogether, but the same things happened there, so it was decided to make them off limits.
 
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You earned yourself an 'eye-roll' Squinty. 😆


I think some who believe in whatever sect/division of christian faith may take having special hidden forums catering to them as a ticket of emboldenment to let their version of morality to spill out on the public forums, which is a direct violation of the clearly-stated 'Religion' clause of the rules. Except for the wild-west flame wars of the turn of the century that led to the Religion rule
(and the politics rule), that rule has pretty much always been respected going into this decade. I don't think a thread like this would have been allowed to stand before then. Reading through this, there are clearly those stating their religious views as 'fact', and those who take exception to having those views stated as fact. There is nothing really 'Tolkien' about this thread from what I can see. That is my 2¢
I was surprised to find this thread in the first place and kinda wondered what it was doing here. 😂
 
I want a good guy now, enough non-chalance, it always breaks hearts
besides, I want to be loved not just be in love
💔
sad part is if the person just happens to be like that, then feelings are already there and nothing can be done about it -.-

ps besides beat me if I'm wrong but Nienna always had a crush on Melkor! And Manwe kind of tolerated him due to super duper much loving him, though disapproving
 
I want a good guy now, enough non-chalance, it always breaks hearts
besides, I want to be loved not just be in love
💔
For some reason, this made me think about something.

Perhaps the reason why I'm more invested to the morally grey, emotionally distant or least heavy characters is because I'm a stranger to intimacy, and I connect emotional closeness with threat, exposure and loss of freedom, so it's easier to love someone who you know will not return it nor would fall for it, or with who it would never blossom into something deeper. It's safe, because the emotional distance remains and what truly matters is the gains and goals, the back and forth, with extras. So safe that even if I'd fall deeper, they just would not. That line would never be crossed. A connection that involves no developing emotions is easier to manage, because the mind remains in control, the heart is still frozen.

Although it's still strange, because I was deeply attracted to Sauron and the Orcs when I was only four -been through a lot already, and I've kept my memory about those experiences vividly-, so at best, this just developed into a direction as time passed, and in the beginning, it came from somewhere else. I've always been a strange kid, either way.

It just feels like there's a certain comfort we may find in them, while self-preserving or coping.
 
Ah, @Saint the Mother of Orcs - you speak of an exceeedingly broad and deep subject here.
And if we were to bring 15 'professional counsellors' together to discuss it, we would have at least 1,563.8 different viewpoints expressed, those as changeable as are the Gladden Fields on any given day.

Suffice it to say 'self-preservation' can take many forms - and who is to say which is 'right' for any given individual? And when? And why?

And of course, in the original question, definitions are necessary for what constitutes 'attraction,' what 'bad' means and why, and certainly what 'morals' are in view, and where they come from. (We are products of our institutionalization and programming.)

Ent would add what constitutes 'people' as well, but umnhhh... chooses to avoid any resulting tantrums. 😁
 
. Imagine if Eve had never listened to the serpent in the garden of Eden!....
Imagine if Adam had not been so dimwitted as to follow her.


Study Finds 100% of Men.jpg


The dude was supposed to be the brains of the outfit!
He should have dope slapped her to get her attention and make her come to her senses.

Right Cross.png
 
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