Where Can Female 🧌Orcs Be Found in Tolkien's Writings?

[Rivendell_librarian]

Apparently Tolkien wrote in a letter that there must be orc women (female orcs) but does anyone know if they are ever referred to in the canonical or non canonical works?

 

[Deleted member 12094]

Not that I know of, no.

Sexism alert! If they exist, then these women must cook horribly, when judging from the type of food (<beurk>) orcs are used to...

 

[Elthir]

I don't recall a mention either. Arguably implied. . . or that is, I infer female orcs from the idea that Orcs reproduced after the manner of the
Children of Eru.

 

[Aldarion]

No, they are not mentioned. But neither are dwarven women... which raises an interesting possibility - namely, that (much like dwarves), sexual dimorphism in orcs is nonexistent or else so subtle to not be noticeable by outsiders... perhaps they differentiate sexes by pheromones (smell), rather than visually?

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

More details of the letter can be found here:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_to_Mrs_Munby

"There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known"

 

[Deleted member 12094]

No Aldarion, dwarf-women do exist! Just read this in App.A of LotR ("Annals of Kings and Rulers"):

It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people. They seldom walk abroad except at great need. They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart. This has given rise to the foolish opinion among Men that there are no dwarf-women, and that the Dwarves ‘grow out of stone’. ​

 

[Aldarion]

No Aldarion, dwarf-women do exist! Just read this in App.A of LotR ("Annals of Kings and Rulers"):

It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people. They seldom walk abroad except at great need. They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart. This has given rise to the foolish opinion among Men that there are no dwarf-women, and that the Dwarves ‘grow out of stone’. ​

Read my post again. I am aware that they exist. I merely pointed out that they are not mentioned in the story.

 

[Deleted member 12094]

Read my post again. I am aware that they exist. I merely pointed out that they are not mentioned in the story.

😅

 

[Alcuin]

More details of the letter can be found here:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_to_Mrs_Munby

"There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known"

I wonder if we can find photographic reproductions of the rest of this letter?

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

I don't know Alcuin.

 

[Alice]

Maybe Tolkien simply didn't want to embarrass his readers with descriptions of orc women. Also his concept of orcs changed throughout his life, maybe sometimes he was not sure about that

 

[Olorgando]

As JRRT once commented about his early writing about Orcs, they were the "infantry of the Old War (whatever war he meant)", who could be slaughtered in huge masses by his good side without compunction. I would guess that thinking about the females that he himself had postulated as per E(A)'s above post

… Orcs reproduced after the manner of the Children of Eru.

went beyond his imagination (and very certainly beyond his - or that of any human - experience in the "real world" - at least I hope so!)

 

[Elthir]

We also never get any scenes of Orcs and Men . . . erm . . . "making" Half-orcs . . . or "Halorcs" as no one calls them.

 

[Olorgando]

We never get scenes of anybody making the "next generation" - apparently a major gripe of the "modernist" critics … 🙄

 

[Elthir]

Good point. Tolkien's not exactly GRR Martin in this matter!

 

[Olorgando]

GRRM? Depending on site suitability, a switch to PM might be advisable ...

 

[Sir Eowyn]

Well, there is ONE Dwarf woman mentioned... Thorin Oakenshield's sister, Dis.

I have to say the reproduction of orcs is some of the more disturbing food for thought available. But it must happen.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

We also never get any scenes of Orcs and Men . . . erm . . . "making" Half-orcs . . . or "Halorcs" as no one calls them.

But I'm sure they didn't grow in tar pits.

 

[Olorgando]

But I'm sure they didn't grow in tar pits.

You mean vaguely like Saruman's Uruk-hai in the second film?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Yes.

But not "vaguely".