Who forged the Rings of power?

[Nenya Evenstar]

I know I should know this, but I can't seem to dig it up out of my memory. Did Celebrimbor forge the 9 Rings and the 7 Rings? I know that he forged the 3 for the elves, but did he make the others as well, or did Sauron make them?

 

[pohuist]

Sauron only forged the One. Celebrimor made the rest. However, the 3 were made w/out Sauron's aid and were pure. The 7 and 9 were made with Sauron's aid (mostly using his knowledge) and were corrupting.

 

[Nenya Evenstar]

Hey, thanks! Does "The Silmarillion" go in depth about that, or is there something that I am missing in the Trillogy? I noticed that in the Council of Elrond and chapters like it, it never really says who made what rings (except for the 3). It just says that the Rings were made and the 3 were hidden from Sauron. Just wondering...

 

[Grond]

There are many additional works that speak in detail about the Rings of Power. The First Place is in the appendices of the LotR. Secondly, the chapter "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" in the Silmarillion. Thirdly, the region of Eregion and the Elven Smiths of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain are discussed indepth in Unfinished Tales, IV THE HISTORY OF GALADRIEL AND CELEBORN and of Amroth King of Lórien. Those two places will provide you with a wealth of information.

Also, remember that while the Three Elven Rings were never touched by Sauron, they were also under the power of the One. They were made with knowledge that was directly linked provided by Sauron and, as such, were still subject to his evil will if worn while he wore the Ruling Ring.

 

[Grond]

Originally posted by pohuist
Sauron only forged the One. Celebrimor made the rest. However, the 3 were made w/out Sauron's aid and were pure. The 7 and 9 were made with Sauron's aid (mostly using his knowledge) and were corrupting.

Good pohuist, I would not go so far as to characterize the Three as pure. They were unsullied and untouched but I feel they were not pure. Nothing that sprung from Sauron's mind could be termed pure and while he had nothing to do with their forging, the knowledge used to make them was gleaned from Him.

 

[ReadWryt]

Yaaaaaaaaaaay! This is one of those questions that I HAVE to check on becuse sometimes when someone asks a question that seems at first blush obvious somebody will slam the poster for not knowing, but you folks are being gratious and helpfull, curtious as would be expected of such nice members!! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...

 

[Nenya Evenstar]

And I appreciate it too! Thanks for not slamming the unknowing poster. I'm on here to learn as much as I can from those of you who know sooooooo much more than I do. I have been reading the books for a long time, but I never really got into them until FOTR came out in theatres. I'm now thinking about things I never thought of before. I've also only read "The Silmarillion" once but I'm going to read it many more times as soon as I can. Thanks for all your help!

 

[pohuist]

Originally posted by Grond
Good pohuist, I would not go so far as to characterize the Three as pure. They were unsullied and untouched but I feel they were not pure. Nothing that sprung from Sauron's mind could be termed pure and while he had nothing to do with their forging, the knowledge used to make them was gleaned from Him.

Maybe "pure" wasn't the best term to describe them. I actually meant to say that the 3 were not corruptive and the wearer would not fall under their dominion. Also, they weren't really under the power of the One, like the 9 for example. The owner of the One could see the 3, so the 3 only became useful when Sauron lost the One, but the One could note dominate the 3 to its will. That's my unnderstanding, correct me if I am wrong.

Nenya, if you want the quick skinny on the Rings read the UT chapters that Grond indicated.

 

[Nenya Evenstar]

I will as soon as I can get my hands on a copy.

 

[Grond]

from The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter #144 To Naomi Mithison, 25 April 1954
Those who lingered were those who were enamoured of Middle-earth and yet desired the unchanging beauty of the Land of the Valar. Hence the making of the Rings; for the Three Rings were precisely endowed with the power of preservation, not of birth. Though unsullied, because they were not made by Sauron nor touched by him, they were nonetheless partly products of his instruction, and ultimately under the control of the One. Thus, as you will see, when the One goes, the last defenders of High-elven lore and beauty are shorn of power to hold back time, and depart.

I think this indicates that the Elvish Rings were not only part and parcel of the One but also subservient to it. Anyone who tried to "use and control" one of the Three while Sauron possessed the One, would be enslaved at some point.

 

[pohuist]

Originally posted by Grond


I think this indicates that the Elvish Rings were not only part and parcel of the One but also subservient to it. Anyone who tried to "use and control" one of the Three while Sauron possessed the One, would be enslaved at some point.

I would emphasise a different part of that letter:

Thus, as you will see, when the One goes, the last defenders of High-elven lore and beauty are shorn of power to hold back time, and depart

I think what Tolkien is saying that the 3 and the One are linked, if the latter is gone, all other lose their power. "Thus" is an explanation of the previous point as to the One controlling the 3. Although, as I said previously if Sauron had one, he could see the 3, and since the 3 and the One were connected, he could theoretically enslave the owner.

What I meant before was that the 3, being unsullied, by themselves had much less corruptive power than, say, the 9. The latter gave the power of domination, while the former that of "preservation."

 

[Walter]

Therefore the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron had never touched them; yet they also were subject to the One.

Unsullied (=not spoiled or made impure) and yet subject to the one...who could've explained it better than old Prof. Tolkien himself...

 

[Brent]

Correct me if I'm wrong - I don't know why I wrote that you will anyway, but apart from the three and the ONE, were not the others forged by the Elven Smiths, the Smiths guild of Ost-in-edhil ? I feel someone should stand up for them it wasn't all Feanors grandson

 

[Grond]

The Elven-smiths of Eregion (the Gwaith-i-Mirdain) forged all the Rings of Power (as well as lesser rings that are not a part of the story). Their leader was Celembrimbor, grandson of Feanor. Celebrimbor was surely involved in the forging of each and every Ring, to some degree. He knew where each and every one of them was bestowed.

 

[Walter]

If I'm not very much mistaken it is nowhere clearly told to which degree Celebrimbor was involved in the making of the lesser rings, or whether the Gwaith-i-Mírdain made any rings without Celebrimbors aid. Though we can assume he must have known a lot or why else would Sauron have tormented him to death...

 

[Grond]

Gosh Walter! You just love to argue with me, don't you! Nowhere in the text does it deny or confirm Celebrimbor's involvement in the forging of any of the Rings save the three.

But.............it does say...

from Unfinished Tales, Of Galadriel and Celeborn
Sauron used all his arts upon Celebrimbor and his fellow-smiths, who had formed a society or brotherhood, very powerful in Eregion, the Gwaith-i-Mírdain; but he worked in secret, unknown to Galadriel and Celeborn. Before long Sauron had the Gwaith-i-Mírdain under his influence, for at first they had great profit from his instruction in secret matters of their craft. 8 So great became his hold on the Mírdain that at length he persuaded them to revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and to seize power in Eregion; and that was at some time between 1350 and 1400 of the Second Age. Galadriel thereupon left Eregion and passed through Khazad-dûm to Lórinand, taking with her Amroth and Celebrían; but Celeborn would not enter the mansions of the Dwarves, and he remained behind in Eregion, disregarded by Celebrimbor. In Lórinand Galadriel took up rule, and defence against Sauron.

This quote is clear evidence to me that Celebrimbor was the leader of the Guild of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain. As the guild leader, he woud undoubtably be involved in any MAJOR guild project. It is easily "assumed" that Celebrimbor would have been intimately involved in the forging of "ALL" the Rings of Power, else, how did he learn the needed skills to forge the Three?

 

[Walter]

Originally posted by Grond
Gosh Walter! You just love to argue with me, don't you! Nowhere in the text does it deny or confirm Celebrimbor's involvement in the forging of any of the Rings save the three.

Actually no! It's not as much fun anymore as it used to be...

However, I do like to stick to the facts at times, and in this case I was curious myself as only of late (due to my work for this folly of mine, the Tolkien-knowledgebase) I tried to find out how many rings exactly have been made (including those that were but essays in the craft) and who exactly made which of those.