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Who is 🧝Arwen..?

B

Bunzy

Guest
I just recently saw a trailer for the film of LOTR. There was a scene with a young lady elf on a horse shouting out a terrible cheesy one-liner. This woman was Liv Tyler.

She's supposed to be playing a charater called Arwen in the Fellowship of the Ring. My problem is I really don't remember her in the book. Also I don't remember a woman called Arwen falling in love with Aragorn. I thought it was Eowyn in The Two Towers he had a thing for? Can someone explain a little about this Arwen?
 
Solution
Arwen is Elrond's daughter.

Throughout The LotR she is Aragorn betrothed. It sort of comes out slowly throughout the story that she is his inspiration. He must be restored to the throne before Elrond will allow them to wed. In one way, he's going through all of it to be with her. (Although he'd probably go through it anyway because it's the right thing to do.)

Except for a few lines at Rivendell and at the end of the story after the war, she has no role in the story other than this inspirational one. She's important, but essentially background, especially with the respect to matters concerning the ring. (Both the ringbearer's quest and the war.)

Hope that helped.

Others may disagree.
Tar-Steve, thank you for your post.

About your comment about people with bad grammer, yeah i guess people who have English as a second or third langauge make grammer mistakes time to time, but TDW is british and should know how to write English properly!
 
Smile when you say that

Let's be nice. TDW is our friend. My grammar is sometimes flawed even when I concentrate on it. But I, like TDW, often type out forum posts too quickly, also inserting words and changing tenses as I go. Lot's of times I miss things in my cleanup attempts.
 
Equality is in the eye of the beholder

Given that this thread is headed down an impossible road, I thought I'd weigh in with a couple of opinions. I grant that it is my experience alone that bring me to these conclusions; but I believe my observations will be, if nothing else, at least reasonable ones.

First of all, I hold the belief that men and women are created (both in Tolkien and in reality) to be equally important counterparts. I do not believe that MOST women are equal to MOST men physically, but there are degrees of strength in both sexes that overlap. That being said, it isn't physical strength that measures a human being's value in the world. People who define their value by their strength are no better than the followers of Melkor. As we saw in ROTK, one well-placed sword, wielded by a very committed and dedicated woman, meant the difference between victory and defeat at the Pellenor Fields. A woman of quality, as a man of quality, does what needs to be done and does not worry about the opinions of others.

Secondly, there is no difference in my mind between the power of a woman and the power of a man to change the world in which they live, or at least to influence and alter the course of events in their lives. Making choices is available to both sexes, and it is our choices that define us, not our battle prowess or our muscle structure or the width of our hips. A recent example in my life is when my wife (who is my Galadriel, my Arwen and my Éowyn rolled into one) bought a small gift and a card for me to give to my mom for her birthday, which I had forgotten (for the tenth year in a row). It's an extremely small example, but without her foresight and thoughtful kindness I'd have continued to fail in this area. It's a weakness of memory/character/you-name-it in me that she has gracefully bolstered with her more sensitive and careful attention to detail. While I think that many women do not receive the accolades for which they are due, I also think that the role of any worthy person is to become the best person they can be, and to attune themselves to the areas in their lives to which they can make the biggest difference. The problem is that for many, it's the accolades themselves that are most important, and this drives them to place themselves in situations that are clearly not their province for the sake of self-importance. Again...behavior of the dwellers of Mordor among us.

Lastly...I don't care if you are an average woman or an exceptional one physically, nor do I think that being a woman makes one weak. Your value lies in your power to make wise choices and in your efforts to give of yourself your best qualities to the world and to the people who surround you. The old phrase "the fairer sex" implies that women are in nearly every way an improvement over men in appearance, while "the weaker sex" only applies to most women's literal physical strength. The arguments that ensue following the utterance of any of these age-old concepts are nearly always based in ignorance. The railings of anger against the so-called "male chauvinist establishment" may be due to the fact that so many angry people only hear words and do not research meanings. I find this especially true of modern feminists (with the exception of Camille Paglia), whose mission it seems is to destroy men and elevate women to a place of power over their world. Those last are the Minions of Morgoth.

It is not wrong for human beings to desire that those who bear the responsibility of growing life within them ought not to be placed wantonly in harm's way. A race that seeks perfect equality in all areas is likely to destroy itself from withint. Tolkien captures this essential truth powerfully in all of his books...where the power of women is in an unalterable and proufound grace and beauty, separate and distinct from men's, without which the world would be unmade. From Rosie Cotton's admonitions of Sam at the end of ROTK to Galadriel's commanding presence at Lothlórien, to Éowyn's valiance on the battlefield, women in LOTR are every bit as important and valiant as any man in the story, be they regal elves, willful shieldmaidens, or simple hobbits.

I've grown tired of the vitriol and hatred shouted at men who want to "protect their women" or who see women as worthy of a greater respect, who deserve our care and protection simply because of their profound and difficult responsibility as the bearers of the race. People who demand that we acquiesce to their demands for a "perfectly equal" environment for both sexes are also servants of the Dark Lord, since their goal is to unmake a system built on union, mutual compassion, and friendship of the two sexes. It is the will of Mordor to sunder men and women from one another, thus eventually destroying our ability to live harmoniously and continue the race.

I have waxed on at length because I have thought about this a lot. I welcome your comments and thoughts on this subject.
 
Arwen is Elrond's daughter.

Throughout The LotR she is Aragorn betrothed. It sort of comes out slowly throughout the story that she is his inspiration. He must be restored to the throne before Elrond will allow them to wed. In one way, he's going through all of it to be with her. (Although he'd probably go through it anyway because it's the right thing to do.)
Tar_ Steve

Comon the only thing Aragorn went throught this so he could be with Arwen come on how about also trying to destroy Sauron and bring peace
 
Deathknell, you have hit the nail on the head! That's exactly the way I feel about the subject. Thank you for your clear-headed thinking!
Oh, BTW
Welcome to the Forum!
 
Deathnell, may I also thank you. You have dealt with this subject with such eloquence and in a way I'm sure I couldn't have - thanks
 
Thoughtful responses

I appreciate the kind thoughts...I know not everyone will agree with me, but it's nice that some do!

I think this subject is particularly intriguing.
 
Deathknell, your magnificent response on this thread has sounded the deathknell to arguments to the contrary. Touche, your ideas are well founded and well written and most importantly, make Tolkien-sense.
 
Bunzey...

I have heard this complaint before, back in the 60's---that LOTR is a sexist book.
Tiresome balderdash of the brain-dead politically correct nazis. Other than Gandalf, Galadriel is perhaps the most powerful and well-developed character in the book. She clearly overshadows Celeborn, her husband, and any other male characters other than Gandalf and Aragorn. In a sesne, she is the heart of the myth-magic that powers the book, the personification of the elegiac theme of paradise lost that permeates and inspires much of the epic.
 
I'm only dredging this up from the deeps where Balrogs lay as I had a good crackup reading through all the 'feminism' commentary. 🤣

Why 'feminism' is brought up instead of 'chauvinism' or 'misogyny' is anyone's guess, but it really cracked me up.

The question asked originally was a good one in the shade of the upcoming movies.

Anyway, this is my post-dredge of the week. I promise to look for a better one next week.
 
...
Anyway, this is my post-dredge of the week. I promise to look for a better one next week.
As you may have noticed, I occasionally have a compulsion towards severe trivia.
Does your necropost have anything to do with the chronological fact that the opening post of the thread was exactly 60 years after Pearl Harbor? 🤓
 
As you may have noticed, I occasionally have a compulsion towards severe trivia.
Does your necropost have anything to do with the chronological fact that the opening post of the thread was exactly 60 years after Pearl Harbor? 🤓
Not at all. it was quite random. I leave it to you to pay attention of such things.
 
Once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern.

Or so says a proverb.
Which is another confirmation of my suspicion that not all proverbs are sensible.
Ten times red (or any other of the nominal 50-50 choices, but don't forget the zero, or in greedy US casinos the zero and double zero) on a roulette wheel isn't, to the ruin of many gamblers.

Which makes me wonder: how high might Arwen have estimated Aragorn's chances of actually becoming King of the reunited Kingdoms to be? Yes, Beren and Lúthien (actually basically Lúthien alone) did succeed, but one occurrence makes an insufficient sample, as I believe a favorite proverb of statisticians to be.
 
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