Who '💀killed' the Witch King?

[Gothmog]

The Frodo theory is based on the idea that although Eowin Killed the Witch-king by destroying his body, his spirit was still held in Arda by his ring and had the One Ring not been destroyed then some believe that he could have be "Re-Bodied" by Sauron.

Also, Frodo did not kill Sauron (nor did Gollum) What happened is that the One Ring was destroyed and the greater part of Sauron's power and strength was destroyed with it. Sauron himself still lived though as a shadow of evil unable to take form or trouble Arda again.

 

[spirit]

Nice, Merry's in the lead with only one vote!!! (mine of course) but i think he wont stay there for long...

You were saying?

*voted for Eowyn... for reasons which shall not be discussed my me *

 

[Alatar]

well it say's,
a voice thin and wailing never to be heard again in that age of the world.

 

[Ingwë]

The Nazgul are not Maia, like Sauron. They are mortal men. The rings extended their lives; the rings did not change them into immortals or into Maia like Sauron.

The Nazgul aren't Maia but they are Spirits of the One Ring and while it exist they won't be destroyed. How could Merry kill the Witch King (Man, owner of a Ring, shadow of the One) ? The problem is that they aren't just Men. They have no body. Just spirits.

And, Gothmog, I agree with you that Frodo didn't kill Sauron; Sauron was destroyed with the One Ring.

 

[Alatar]

I still think that they are men, only with no will or body, but susepticle to wounds, as is shown when merry hits him in the leg.

 

[Luthien Elenese]

and I quote:

'"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel.
"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn am I, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him."...

'...Eowyn it was, and Dernhelm also. For into Merry's mind flashed the memory of the face he saw at the riding from Dunharrow: the face of one that goes seeking death, having no hope. Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate. At least she should not die alone, unaided...

'...Out of the wreck rose the Black Rider, tall and threatening, towering above her. With a cry of hatred that stung the very ears like venom, he let fall his mace. Her sheild was shivered into many peices, and her arm was broken; she stumbled to her knees. He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered; he raised his mace to kill.
But suddenly he too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving into the ground. Merry's sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through his black mantle, and peirced the sinew behind his mighty knee.
"Eowyn, Eowyn!" cried Merry. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed before her. The sword broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a clang. Eowyn fell forward onto her falled foe. But lo! the mantle and hauberk were empty. Shapeless they lay now on the ground, torn and tumbled; and a cry went up into the shuddering air, and faded into a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed up, and was never heard again in that age of this world.'

Meanwhile, Frodo and Sam are in Shelob's lair, so how could Frodo have killed the Witch King? And Merry, not being a man, can wound him, but it is Eowyn, not the hobbits that causes him to actually die. It says so, right there!

 

[Arvedui]

Don't confuse the "no man can kill me" with some kind of a curse. It was a prophecy. Glorfindel "saw" that the Witch-king would be killed by a woman. That didn't prevent any Man from killing him!

But when it comes to the case "Eówyn vs. Merry vs. Frodo ," my vote goes to Eówyn.

Merry made him "mortal," but it was Eówyn who finished the business.
And Frodo was busy elsewhere...

 

[Findulias]

even if Eowyn did kill the witch king, Merry broke the spell, so i don't think that he would have lived long even if Eowyn had not stabbed him, considering that he must have been pretty old. however, that puts a rather unheroic outlook on Eowyn's 'i am no man!' and i don't think Tolkien would have wanted to display Eowyn as unheroic or insignificant. as for Frodo, thats a little far fetched, actully it's alot far fetched, he died when Eowyn stabbed him, that much is obvious, his spirit didn't linger around scaring little kids into brushing their teeth, and he wouldn't have power to do anything much more significant than that. but i suppose everyones opinion makes scence to them, at least i hope.

 

[Alatar]

Well i think that it could mean only merry weapon could break the spell that alowed him to move, and then eyown killed him, hmm, sounds like a mercyu kill, not good!

 

[ingolmo]

Here's another quote to convince everyone that Eowyn killed him.
From The Return of the King, Chapter 8: The Houses of Healing. Said by Aragorn to Eowyn:

'Eowyn Eomund's daughter, awake! For your enemy has passed away!'

I think the words, 'has passed away' prove that Frodo did not kill the Black Captain. And Merry only distracted him, I think everyone's understood that.

 

[Berserker]

Eowyn killed him before Frodo destroyed the ring.

 

[Ingwë]

Eowyn killed him before Frodo destroyed the ring.

I already mentioned that I think Eowyn destroyed his form, his body, not 'killed him'!
You say the Nazguls are mortal? The Rings of Power were forged in the Second age and the Ringwraiths still live in the Third age. Are they mortal? No, they aren't because they are the Spirits of the One Ring. Their form was destroyed near Rivendell but they have new later - but the Ring exists. Frodo destroyed the Ring and the Nazguls were no more. Is that clear?

 

[Arvedui]

The Nazgûl were mortal: they were Men, after all.

(Is that clear? )

 

[Ingwë]

Yes, dear Arvedui
But they have Rings of Power and they don't die. Without the Rings (and perhaps the One Ring) they are mortal, but we have Rings.

 

[Durin's Bane]

Nice, I have three supporters now... But still won't be back for a while...

 

[ingolmo]

So do you mean to say that the Witch King's spirit lingered around on the Pelenor even after the battle? And why did Aragorn say 'your foe has passed away'. And if your theory was true, no soldier killed any other soldier of the dark forces. Because if Sauron had come to power again, he could have restored life back to those soul-less bodies. So did Frodo kill Sauron's whole army?

 

[Maerbenn]

A footnote to The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien no. 246 says that the Witch-king was simply “reduced to impotence” in the Battle; he was not killed.

 

[Ingwë]

So do you mean to say that the Witch King's spirit lingered around on the Pelenor even after the battle? And why did Aragorn say 'your foe has passed away'. And if your theory was true, no soldier killed any other soldier of the dark forces. Because if Sauron had come to power again, he could have restored life back to those soul-less bodies. So did Frodo kill Sauron's whole army?

Hm...

The Captains bowed their heads; and when they looked up again, behold! their enemies were flying and the power of Mordor was scattering like dust in the wind. As when death smites the swollen brooding thing that inhabits their crawling hill and holds them all in sway, ants will wander witless and purposeless and then feebly die, so the creatures of Sauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless; and some slew themselves, or cast themselves in pits, or fled wailing back to hide in holes and dark lightless places far from hope. But the Men of Rhún and of Harad, Easterling and Southron, saw the ruin of their war and the great majesty and glory of the Captains of the West. And those that were deepest and longest in evil servitude, hating the West, and yet were men proud and bold, in their turn now gathered themselves for a last stand of desperate battle. But the most part fled eastward as they could; and some cast their weapons down and sued for mercy.

This is long quote...
Spirit... How can the other see it if it is a spirit. It is invisible. A Nazgul!

 

[Findulias]

Maerbenn made a very good point by bringing up that quote by Tolkien, i looked impotent up in the dictionary and it defined it as; lacking power or ability, so i must say that was a well made point. It adds a bit more meaning to the Frodo theory.

 

[ingolmo]

Maerbenn's point is very illuminating. But it doesn't show that Frodo killed the Witch King, it shows that nobody did.