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Why 13? And Why 🧙Gandalf?

Ent

Silently Observing Observed Silence
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So Gandalf shows up at the Baggins place and marks a door indicating to 13 dwarves "this is the place."
As we read, we learn the dwarves had asked Gandalf to "find one more" for their party.
Tolkien writes/speaks of this number "thirteen" 10 times in The Hobbit. I can't help but ponder.

Question 1: Why this supeerstition Ent wonders? Why this triskaidekaphobia? Can we find other superstitions Tolkien appends to the dwarves?

Question 2: Why didn't they 'drop one' and go back to twelve, rather than facing "having all the bad luck they like..."?

Question 3: How and why do they turn to Gandalf to choose an additional member? i.e. is it recorded somewhere, Gandalf was involved in the rest of the selection process? Ent DOES believe Gandalf is said to have been involved in some encouragement of them to take up their quest - though Ent can't recall where his eyeballs intersected with the (possible) information.

What think ye? (Was Tolkien himself superstitious?)
 
Gandalf's involvement is discussed in the Appendices, and in varying stories in "The Quest of Erebor" in UT, though I don't remember an explicit mention of the numbers question.
 
How and why do they turn to Gandalf to choose an additional member? i.e. is it recorded somewhere, Gandalf was involved in the rest of the selection process?

Like @Squint-eyed Southerner said, you will find many answers in "The Quest of Erebor" in Unfinished Tales.

Long story short: Gandalf accidentally meets Thorin in some Inn (it could be even The Prancing Pony), and Thorin asks for Gandalf advice, and Gandalf agreed to be dwarfs guest and hear their story and their plan. During the meeting, Gandalf have a random thought that dwarfs could bring some hobbit on their quest, and he feelt right away that this random thought was not really random, but special, and it's very important to be done.
Thorin actually refuses, because he doesn't have high opinion of hobbits, but Gandalf insist. And you know... when book Gandalf insist on something, very few could refuse him.

I also don't remember if 13 number is mentioned at this book, and I think that was just dwarwen superstition, and I don't think Gandalf care for that at all, and he might only used it as an argument to convince them to bring some hobbit on the quest.
 
I don't think the number 13 has any special meaning. There were 12 dwarves and for some reason, Gandalf knew that Bilbo has to be part of the group, that made 13. It's never explained why Gandalf thought Bilbo has to be part of it, but I am guessing that deep inside his clouded memories, he could feel what needed to be done.
 
It's an important number and I'm sure there are more reasons than I know. I've read about it somewhere else but I can't for the life of me remember - maybe Mark Atherton 'There and Back Again'?.
Shippey: 'Dáin Ironfoot himself incarnates in Tolkien’s Middle-earth the whole tough, fair, bitter, somehow unlucky character of the dwarvish race.' Maybe they're supposed to be unlucky.

I think Tolkien chose it for poetic reasons, because he was writing a children's story and it has a better ring to it (no pun intended). It's a silly amount of characters, and that adds charm.

There are 13 dwarves Ricardo, Bilbo makes fourteen. So he could be considered 'luckmaker', which is his role throughout.
 
As for why the number thirteen was considered unlucky by the Dwarves, I once saw somewhere on the Internet a rather compelling fan-invented explanation that it had to do with the legend according to which Aulë made spouses for six of the Dwarf-fathers but wearied before he could make one for Durin, after which Eru’s intervention followed, so that in the end Durin alone of the Seven Fathers had no spouse (see The War of the Jewels, p. 211).
 
hhmmm.... Ent will seek out the consequential, if arcane, references provided by all. Thank you.
Where were Thorin and his twelve fellow dwarfs residing, before they began their quest? Certainly not with Dain Ironfoot.
Were they 13 alone, or were they a small part of a larger group of dwarves, residing wherever they resided?

Ent must research this.
 
Rise with merriment and joy, Throw wide the windows and doors, drink pickle juice and vomit in your spouses flower vases then use it for fertilizer, Klaatu is BACK baby! I could NOT resist a post about my favorite number 13 or as the ancient Aztecs referred to it, Matlactli-on-eyi (ironically also the name of a chipmunk I once met in Bangladesh selling floor tiles).

@Ent, my leafy friend, your inquiry into the numerical anxieties of Durin’s Folk strikes at a fascinating intersection of Norse mythic influence, Dwarf-psychology, and Gandalf's broader maneuvering.

The Dwarves' aversion to the number thirteen which is a classic case of triskaidekaphobia is less an isolated incident and more a reflection of their deep cultural fixation on reckoning, order, and tradition.

Dwarves are fundamentally a counting people. From their Seven Fathers to the meticulous division of treasure, numbers hold special weight for them. In Northern folklore, which heavily influenced Tolkien's framing of the Dwarves, thirteen is historically the number of disruption (most famously present at the feast in Valhalla where Loki arrived as the uninvited guest number thirteen). For a company embarking on a desperate, near-hopeless endeavor, bad omens were not merely psychological burdens but they were logistical hazards.

Tolkien makes this explicit right in the text of The Hobbit. In Chapter 1 (An Unexpected Party), Gandalf directly calls out their numerical hesitation:

"You asked me to find the fourteenth man for your expedition, and I chose Mr. Baggins. Just let any one say I chose the wrong man or the wrong house, and you can stop at thirteen and have all the bad luck you like, or go back to digging coal."

Later, in Chapter 12 (Inside Information), Bilbo relies on this exact framing when boasting to Smaug:
"I was chosen for the lucky number."
"Lovely titles!" sneered the dragon. "But lucky numbers don't always come off."
As for other Dwarf superstitions, their secretive nature itself is built upon ritual caution. They guard their inner names (khuzdul) with absolute secrecy. They also place immense stock in prophecies and signs such as the flying of the thrush or the precise timing of Durin’s Day, showing that their reliance on luck and omen is tied directly to cycles of the world.

(Though speaking of ancient anxieties, at least their fears were purely numerical. Fingon (no offense @Fingon_Findekáno ;)), by contrast, suffered from a rather abrupt lack of foresight regarding Gothmog's axe, proving that a split-ting headache in Middle-earth is rarely solved by an early evening nap.)

Or they could have dropped one, right? To "drop one" Dwarf to return to the favored number twelve would be entirely contrary to the culture of Durin's Folk.

Thorin’s company was not a mercenary band assembled at random, it was a retinue bound by kin, honor, and shared exile. To dismiss a member of the house merely to fix a numerical tally would be a grave insult. Loyalty to the line of Durin superseded bad luck. Therefore, the only honorable solution to a bad number was not subtraction, but addition (like when I eat too many chicken wings, do I subtract one? ew imagine THAT mess, I eat more!).

Gandalf’s role in this arrangement is documented in "The Quest of Erebor" (from Unfinished Tales).

Gandalf was deeply concerned about Smaug and the strategic vulnerability of the North should Sauron return. Thorin, driven by pride and a desire to reclaim his heritage, met Gandalf by chance in Bree. While Thorin initially envisioned a full military campaign, Gandalf knew that stealth, not armed force, was required to breach the Mountain.

The Dwarves didn't ask Gandalf to find a generic "fourteenth member," Thorin wanted a warrior. It was Gandalf who insisted on a "burglar"—specifically selecting Bilbo Baggins. Gandalf recognized that the Hobbits possessed a quiet, unnoticed resilience and a total lack of the "smell" of Men or Dwarves, which would be crucial against a dragon. The mark on Bilbo's door was Gandalf’s subtle forcing of the issue, binding his chosen Hobbit to Thorin’s pride.

Regarding the Professor himself, Tolkien was generally far more amused by historical and linguistic superstitions than bound by them. He viewed such fears as rich cultural artifacts that added depth and "historicity" to his secondary world.

Je vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'assurance de ma parfaite considération,

Klaatu
Assistant to the Steward of the Great Halls of Speculation
Curator of Unfinished Thoughts
Auditor of Unnecessarily Polka-dotted Watermelons
 
(Though speaking of ancient anxieties, at least their fears were purely numerical. Fingon (no offense @Fingon_Findekáno ;)), by contrast, suffered from a rather abrupt lack of foresight regarding Gothmog's axe, proving that a split-ting headache in Middle-earth is rarely solved by an early evening nap.)
My dear Klaatu, you are simply cracking me up! 😂😅🫠🤣
 
My dear Klaatu, you are simply cracking me up! 😂😅🫠🤣
I'm glad that I could bring some joy to you, truly :). I will be honest, LOTR/Middle Earth is a true love of mine and I am passionate about sharing what I've learned from reading of Tolkien's world and of course adding some humor (some, LMAO) as well. Thank YOU for taking the time to read my post and replying.
 

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