Why Tolkien Disliked Disney

[Aldarion]

Basically, Disney did to fairy tales what modern mass culture does to everything: it dumbed them down, watered them down, much like "butter over too much bread". And Tolkien, who enjoyed mythology and fairy tales, obviously couldn't condone such despicable behavior.

 

[Radaghast]

Dumbed down? I dunno about that. I don't think the fairy tales themselves are exercises in intellectualism. Some of them are incredibly absurd (and I mean more in terms of logic and behavior, not magical elements). And as far as commercializing them, what could he expect? Animation was and is a business.

 

[The Witch-king Of Angmar]

The original fairy tales are always there to read, too (and they were altered several times as well over the course of history, so it's not that they're "original and pure" in the first place).

As a German, all I can say is that - as far as I'm aware - kids here are still introduced to the gruesome fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm AND they also watch the Disney versions. It can all co-exist, there's room for everything and all interpretations, no need to gatekeep anything. IMO, of course.

 

[d4rk3lf]

In the video, it is stated that Tolkien disliked Disney portrayal of dwarfs, making them just a comedic relief.
I am curios to know, what he would thing of PJ portrayal of Gimli, and all the farts jokes.

 

[Aldarion]

In the video, it is stated that Tolkien disliked Disney portrayal of dwarfs, making them just a comedic relief.
I am curios to know, what he would thing of PJ portrayal of Gimli, and all the farts jokes.

He'd probably start chasing PJ around with an axe.

 

[Radaghast]

One thing about the Disney's Snow White is that Disney had to mortgage his house and borrow money to even get the film made. All the while people were poo-poohing the idea, calling it "Disney's Folly". So, it was a big risk, almost as if people were expecting it to fail. The movie was a hit, but it was followed in 1940 by Pinocchio and Fantasia, both of which were not box office successes, at least initially. So, the "commercialization" idea is a bit overstated, imho. Disney was not then the juggernaut it later became, and if Tolkien thought things were commercialized then, boy howdy...

My opinion about the movie is that it basically tested the waters for feature-length animation, a significant first for the medium. I don't think it's a great film; there is a lot of filler packed around a threadbare story. I can possibly see where Tolkien had issues with it. But I find it pleasant enough. One thing that the movie possibly introduces, that later became a subject of some controversy, is that the Prince kisses Snow White while she is in her death trance. In the version of the story I last read, the Prince lifts her casket and the piece of poisoned apple she ate gets dislodged from her throat, causing her to come out of her coma. I guess Disney opted for the change (if it was indeed their change) because the original was either too silly and/or hard to convey on film.

After the initial financial success of Snow White Disney perfected the form, even if not always with the desired box office results. I happen to think Disney's Pinocchio is brilliant and a marked improvement over the original Carlo Collodi story (would anyone really want to see a faithful adaptation of that, with Pinocchio actually being hung from a tree by the Fox and the Cat)? Guillermo del Toro came to the closest to that in 2022 and even that was softened somewhat from the original tale. I also think the Disney version of Peter Pan is also a big improvement over the original James Barrie book, which I honestly found nigh unreadable. And, of course, Disney didn't just adapt fairy tales. There are quite a few movies of other genres: Dumbo, Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, etc.

Anyway, I'm not questioning Tolkien's dislike of Disney product. He had a his reasons and I'm sure they had merit. But he was also a bit vague about his displeasure (as he was about other things) so I'm sure I would disagree on various points. One thing that is certain is that Disney would unequivocally be the wrong company to adapt Tolkien, something Disney evidently agreed with, according to the video @Aldarion posted. It would not be feasible in the least.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

 

[Aldarion]

View attachment 29832

I do believe he hated cats, though.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

There's a thread for that.

Did Tolkien hate cats?

Hey. I own 2 little kittens, and all dogs i have ever owned were either crazy, disobeyed me, or both, so you could say i prefer cats. So i am kinda disturbed by how my favourite writer clearly hates them. I am reading B&L and Tevildo and his 'thanes' are clearly depicted as evil. Not only...

thetolkien.forum

I have my doubts.

 

[The Witch-king Of Angmar]

I hope he didn't dislike guinea pigs, they're my faves. 😮 But yeah, maybe there should be more videos about what he LIKED! 😆

 

[Deimos]

In the video, it is stated that Tolkien disliked Disney portrayal of dwarfs, making them just a comedic relief.
I am curios to know, what he would thing of PJ portrayal of Gimli, and all the farts jokes.

"..It would be better for him if a large millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea."

 

[Deimos]

I hope he didn't dislike guinea pigs, they're my faves. 😮 But yeah, maybe there should be more videos about what he LIKED! 😆

Gerbils... I'm sure he liked gerbils. In fact I'm so sure that I named two of my gerbils Thorin and Pippin.

Thorin.... little guy could jump straight up 15 inches. I didn't dare take the screen (top) off the aquarium and walk away.
He could clear the top edge without touching it, land on the floor on all fours, and then stand up, look at me, and take off.

 

[Olorgando]

Gerbils...
Thorin.... little guy could jump straight up 15 inches.

That's about three times body length. Compared (not possible, see below) to humans that would put the high jump record closer to the pole vault one.

Yes, I am acutely aware of the squared (as in muscle, bone etc. cross-section) to cubed (volume / mass) issue of shrinking or enlarging things by factors of X in one dimension, mainly used is height. King Kong (and never mind Godzilla) would have had problems breathing, never mind moving around, at 60 feet tall ...

 

[Deimos]

That's about three times body length. Compared (not possible, see below) to humans that would put the high jump record closer to the pole vault one.

Yes, I am acutely aware of the squared (as in muscle, bone etc. cross-section) to cubed (volume / mass) issue of shrinking or enlarging things by factors of X in one dimension, mainly used is height. King Kong (and never mind Godzilla) would have had problems breathing, never mind moving around, at 60 feet tall ...

Then the Balrog (at least the PJ version) would have problems too...

 

[Olorgando]

Then the Balrog (at least the PJ version) would have problems too...

Definitely - in a world in which our physics and mathematics are valid.
Robert Wadlow (1918-1940), the tallest human ever reliably measured at 8 ft 11.1 in (272 centimeters), needed leg braces to walk, These, through irritation of a faulty brace to his ankle that led to an infection (in days before antibiotics) led to his early death.
The currently tallest living person is Sultan Kösen, a Turkish Kurd (aged 41), at 8 ft 2.82 in (251 cm). He needs crutches to walk.
The list of tallest active NBA basketball players (obviously centers) tops out at 7 ft 7 in (231 cm), with a few 7 ft 6 in (229 cm) guys following.
NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, at 7 ft 2 in (218 cm) does not even show up on this list.
So somewhere between about 230 and 250 cm, increased height becomes a problem. The Balrog, as a Maia, may have been able to thumb his nose at Newton et. al. ... that bit about emitting fire certainly is not mentioned in any theories known to me ...

 

[herlig9]

Dumbed down? I dunno about that. I don't think the fairy tales themselves are exercises in intellectualism. And as far as commercializing them, what could he expect? Animation was a business.

I think original Snow White movie by Disney looks charming. But he had a point about the dwarves, they look ridiculous.

 

[Þráinn Þórhallsson]

I was thinking of this and while I like Tolkien's writing(other wise I would not be a member on this forum), the one thing I sort of dislike about his view on possible adaptation is how afraid of it coming out as silly and childish. The problem with this is Tolkien is quite silly himself and his comments on Dinsey as well as him having a massive problem with Gandalf spurting in the Zimmerman script tells me that he probably did not consider things as the ridiculesly sized Morgoth and Ancalagon the black, evil cats who rule in a castle and Tomb Bombadil even just a little bit silly.

This is why I don't think a Tolkien adaptation has to be one he would have approved, as besides me liking Pj's take on Radaghast and his more comedic portrayal of Gimli. Because while they were silly there is a lot of silliness that is part of Tolkien's middle earth. He just does not see it that way.

This is why is I am asked to choose between the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars(much like Harry Potter vs Lord of the Rings this is something people are often questioned online), I would choose Star Wars any day. Because at least I know that George Lucas did not intend for the Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks to be all serious business jo!