Will they make Turin fight in the ⚔️war of wrath?

[Turin_Turambar]

According to Andreth's prophecy, Turin is kept in the halls of Mandos for 50 years. Then he fights in the battle of wrath and kills the Ancalagon. Do you think they will include this scenario in the battle of wrath in the movie The Silmarillion? In the link below it is written that since Tolkien could not make any changes regarding Turin turambar's return, his son Christopher did not add Turin turambar's final fate to the Silmarillion. So the ideas that Turin fought both in the War of Wrath and Dagor Dagorath were not included in the published Silmarillion. Do you think the filmmakers would add these prophecies to the movie?

Túrin Turambar

Template:Short description Túrin Turambar (pronounced sjn) is a fictional character in J. R. R. Tolkien's legendarium. Turambar and the Foalókë, begun in 1917, is the first appearance of Túrin in the legendarium. Túrin is a Man of the First Age of Middle-earth, whose family had been cursed by...

neoencyclopedia.fandom.com

 

[Elthir]

Do you mean if these filmmakers only got the rights to the 1977 Constructed Silmarillion, would they still add stuff from other sources that they don't have the rights to?

I tend to doubt it, but who knows. In any case, they'd have plenty of battles to film, and more than one dragon to slay, just using The Silmarillion.

They could film, or refer to, this, for example, ["she" here being Varda]: ". . . and many other of the ancient stars she gathered together and set as signs in the heavens of Arda: Wilwarin, Telumendil (. . .) and Menelmacar with his shining belt, that forbodes the Last Battle that shall be at the end of days."
The Silmarillion, 1977, Of The Coming Of The Elves

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[Turin_Turambar]

Do you mean if these filmmakers only got the rights to the 1977 Constructed Silmarillion, would they still add stuff from other sources that they don't have the rights to?

I tend to doubt it, but who knows. In any case, they'd have plenty of battles to film, and more than one dragon to slay, just using The Silmarillion.

They could film, or refer to, this, for example, ["she" here being Varda]: ". . . and many other of the ancient stars she gathered together and set as signs in the heavens of Arda: Wilwarin, Telumendil (. . .) and Menelmacar with his shining belt, that forbodes the Last Battle that shall be at the end of days."
The Silmarillion, 1977, Of The Coming Of The Elves

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peter jackson added multiple events to his movies that weren't in the book. peter or any other producer can do the same for the war of wrath. besides, fighting of turin turambar in the war of wrath is not fictional, it's something in the book.

 

[Elthir]

peter jackson added multiple events to his movies that weren't in the book. peter or any other producer can do the same for the war of wrath.

But I'm not simply talking about made up events that weren't in the books.

I'm talking about stuff that filmmakers do not (or may not) have the legal right to use --
stuff taken from other books.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

But I'm not simply talking about made up events that weren't in the books.

I'm talking about stuff that filmmakers do not (or may not) have the legal right to use --
stuff taken from other books.

I'm not sure about this. But I still think that if the movie rights of the whole Silmarillion are taken, the rights to the other books can be obtained.

 

[Elthir]

By the way, I'm aware that in Jackson's Hobbit films he had a character refer to the "Blue Wizards" --
a detail from a book that Jackson didn't have the rights to.

I mean, in a sense, one "can" add stuff that one doesn't have the legal right to -- erm, by ignoring that one "can't" due to copyright law.

In any case, again I doubt the fictive future filmmakers would, as they would have the rights to Túrin slaying Glaurung and Earendil slaying Ancalagon. I'd guess they would be happy enough with this?

 

[Turin_Turambar]

By the way, I'm aware that in Jackson's Hobbit films he had a character refer to the "Blue Wizards" --
a detail from a book that Jackson didn't have the rights to.

I mean, in a sense, one "can" add stuff that one doesn't have the legal right to -- erm, by ignoring that one "can't" due to copyright law.

In any case, again I doubt the fictive future filmmakers would, as they would have the rights to Túrin slaying Glaurung and Earendil slaying Ancalagon. I'd guess they would be happy enough with this?

For turin's return in dagor dagorath to make sense, they can return Turin in the war of wrath and have him slay the ancalagon with earendil. Because for how Turin returned in dagor dagorath is never explained. But the dagor dagorath prophecy is self-explanatory enough when turin returns from the halls of mandos to fight in the war of wrath.

 

[Elthir]

For turin's return in dagor dagorath to make sense, they can return Turin in the war of wrath and have him slay the ancalagon with earendil.

If they did, they would be making an assumption, as there is no text in HOME or the Constructed Silmarillion that describes this.

But the dagor dagorath prophecy is self-explanatory enough when turin returns from the halls of mandos to fight in the war of wrath.

Mannish Myth in any case, not prophecy

 

[Turin_Turambar]

If they did, they would be making an assumption, as there is no text in HOME or the Constructed Silmarillion that describes this.



Mannish Myth in any case, not prophecy

In fact, Tolkien first predicted the second prophecy of mandos as a prophecy. Then he changed it to a man legend. I personally think that this event is both a prophecy and a man legend at the same time.

 

[Elthir]

In fact, Tolkien first predicted the second prophecy of mandos as a prophecy.

And when I say "Mannish Myth in any case, not prophecy" I'm referring to the fact that JRRT himself revised it this way. Tolkien once imagined full grown Elves to be about the size of human children.
Or once imagined that Elves were reborn/reincarnated as Elf-babies.

Or that Beren was an Elf.

Then he changed it to a man legend. I personally think that this event is both a prophecy and a man legend at the same time.

Okay, and I think it's a mannish legend, due to Tolkien's revision

If I may ask, what is your personal opinion here based on?

 

[Turin_Turambar]

And when I say "Mannish Myth in any case, not prophecy" I'm referring to the fact that JRRT himself revised it this way. Tolkien once imagined full grown Elves to be about the size of human children.
Or once imagined that Elves were reborn/reincarnated as Elf-babies.

Or that Beren was an Elf.



Okay, and I think it's a mannish legend, due to Tolkien's revision

If I may ask, what is your personal opinion here based on?

In my personal opinion, I think Tolkien gave up prophech of dagor dagorath and turned it into a man legend. But perhaps he may have made a man legend to confirm his prophecy is true and will come true. after all, the fact that dagor dagorath is a man legend doesn't mean it will never happen.

 

[Elthir]

Of course nothing I can point to (so far), from JRRT's hand, means that Túrin returning at the end of the world to avenge Men is definitely not going to happen, but that said. . .

. . . this return could be a fiction that arose among Men, based in part on Andreth's prophecy --
Andreth (a mortal woman) prophesized about Túrin returning at a "Last Battle" -- she "meant"
the War of Wrath -- yet later the term may have been confusedly taken to mean "Last Battle"
as in (something like) a "Dagor Dagorath scenario".

Actually, I think that's plausible, even if I can't quote Tolkien on it

Legends tend to grow (alter somewhat) in the telling!