Welcome to The
Tolkien Forum,
Notta.
Here is the place - when on the hill
Aragorn and
Arwen admit each other in love. There are several Russian translations that are considered basic. There are differences. But it sounds like this: they got engaged / swore an oath to each other.
But then, after Arwen's words, Aragorn says in the English original:
"...for I am mortal, and if you will cleave to me, Evenstar, then the Twilight you must also renounce..."
The meaning of the Russian translation of this phrase is this: if she claims that she loves and will remain faithful, then she must confirm her love by choosing the mortal fate of her husband.
After that, Arwen thinks for a long time…
I was extremely indignant at this text. Where is the free choice of Arwen? Aragorn put her before the choice - if you love - prove it.
Aragorn's fans say that the Russian translation is wrong,
that in fact Aragorn with this phrase warns Arwen of the consequences of her vow of loyalty to him, even gives her a chance to refuse ...
Please, what is the meaning of this phrase?
Да, но предупреждение, а не требование. Yes, but a warning, not a demand. (I used Google, too.)
The old English phrase Tolkien uses for “got engaged / swore an oath” is “plighted their troth”, and you are correct: that’s exactly what it means: each would remain faithful to other until they could be married.
If Arwen chooses to cling to Aragorn,
then she will lose the
Elvish immortality her father
Elrond chose, and accept the mortality of
Men her uncle
Elros embraced. Her fate will the same as
Lúthien’s: Lúthien renounced her Elvish immortality to cling to
Beren. Her greatest pain was not that she would die, but that she would be separated from her father. Later she also learned that death itself is filled with grief, and had trouble accepting Aragorn’s words of hope (
estel), “In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. [W]e are not bound forever in the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory.”
To return to
CirdanLinweilin’s theme, in a 1968 BBC interview
available here, Tolkien said,
If you really come down to any large story that interests people, that can hold their attention for a considerable time or make them – stories are practically always human stories – practically are always about one thing, aren’t they? Death. Inevitably death.
He then proceeds to cite existentialist philosopher
Simone de Beauvoir, life-long companion of
Jean-Paul Sartre,
There is no such thing as a natural death: nothing that ever happens to a man is ever natural, since his presence calls the world into question. All men must die: but for every man his death is an accident, and, even if he knows it and consents to it, an unjustifiable violation.
In another place (
Letters of JRR Tolkien, I think, but I do not care to dig out the precise quotation right now), Tolkien remarks that Men and
Elves represent two aspects of Humanity. Men in his legendarium are like us: they die after some time and do not return to this world. Elves cannot leave the world: They are not
immortal, per se, but immensely
longevial, their end coming with the end of
Arda. That is not immortality, but maximum longevity beginning at birth. Tolkien has
Finrod Felagund discuss this with Andreth, his brother
Aegnor’s mortal lover from whom Aegnor withholds his affections. When
Finrod assures her his brother does love her, and is equally pained by their separation, Andreth is bitter, and accuses the Eldar of arrogance: in popular “
social justice” parlance, “bigotry”. Finrod then points out that Elves die, too, and though their end may be far off, they are not in a different situation altogether: though their end is yet far off, they dread it as much as Men. And when Finrod learns from Andreth that Men have “the Old Hope” that
Eru Himself will enter into Arda and redeem them, he accepts this, but replies that no one has ever spoken to the Elves of any hope or redemption for them.
This immense longevity
without hope eventually produces within the Elves both regret and longing: Regret for their errors; Longing to slow or prevent change. It is this depressing mix of regret and longing that
Sauron harnesses to ensnare the
Noldor of Eregion into fashioning
the Rings of Power. It is fear of death and envy of the life of the Eldar that Sauron’s first spies and emissaries in
Westernesse, the three
Númenórean lords who fall prey to their portion of
the Nine Rings, use to foment the initial rebellion against Eru and the
Valar among the Dúnedain, that Sauron himself later exacerbates to bring about the Downfall of
Númenor.
Men envy Elves, yet Elves envy Men.
