What if "Church of Iluvatar" was made

[herlig9]

Just curious to how big that religion would be? If it were made by cult followers?

 

[Olorgando]

Just curious to how big that religion would be? If it were made by cult followers?

I'm fairly certain that JRRT himself would have been absolutely horrified by any such thing ...

 

[1stvermont]

Just curious to how big that religion would be? If it were made by cult followers?

There was someone who posted a while back who was researching such groups. There are some around, however, I am not sure where.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'm a bit confused-- are we talking about real life, or Middle-earth?

 

[herlig9]

I'm a bit confused-- are we talking about real life, or Middle-earth?

If people wanted to make religion of it in our real world from the LOTR universe. Or Silmarillion would be that book for information

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

Don't give them any ideas 🤣

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

If people wanted to make religion of it in our real world from the LOTR universe.

I met someone who claimed to follow Bokononism, so sure, what the heck. 😅

 

[Olorgando]

If people wanted to make religion of it in our real world from the LOTR universe. Or Silmarillion would be that book for information

Who would be its equivalent to Moses, Jesus or Mohammed? Not JRRT himself, certainly. So I'd guess it wouldn't rise above a tiny sect.

 

[herlig9]

Who would be its equivalent to Moses, Jesus or Mohammed? Not JRRT himself, certainly. So I'd guess it wouldn't rise above a tiny sect.

Well they have the Valar to do that. So thats about it.

 

[Olorgando]

Well they have the Valar to do that. So thats about it.

Uh-uh. It needs a human prophet. Which prophet might claim to have received his ,,, whatever ... from one of the Valar (which one?). That's the way it has worked for several thousand years.

 

[herlig9]

Uh-uh. It needs a human prophet. Which prophet might claim to have received his ,,, whatever ... from one of the Valar (which one?). That's the way it has worked for several thousand years.

Well the thing is people pass down scripts and texts. If it goes against the will and purpose of Iluvatar and Valar, it probably is deemed as a phony.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I AM TULKAS!

 

[1stvermont]

In this sort of thing, I always imagined Tolkien himself was the prophet who Iluvatar used to reveal this gnostic truth through. They would have to say that Tolkien received this "revelation" even though he himself did not accept it as such.

 

[Olorgando]

In this sort of thing, I always imagined Tolkien himself was the prophet who Iluvatar used to reveal this gnostic truth through. They would have to say that Tolkien received this "revelation" even though he himself did not accept it as such.

JRRT himself called the process "sub-creation". I'd like to read the contorted arguments the sect would need to get around this utterly unambiguous statement by him ... or maybe "like" isn't quite the right word; "spin-doctoring" is usually anything but a pretty sight ... 😈

 

[Lómelindë Lindórië]

I AM TULKAS!

(Just to reply over a month later...)

Can't deny that you actually seem like Tulkas xD

In addition...

You are not the only Ainu! There is another! I am the Maia of Námo and Irmo!

 

[The Void]

JRRT did do his works based upon the desire to create a Mythology for the people of the British Iles. It seemed that unlike most of Europe, Britain didn't have a historical mythology of its own. It is also said that the 'Briton' (those who were in Briton before the Anglo-Saxons arrived. Note: of 6,000 burials discovered from the immigration of the Anglos and Saxons into Briton. No proof of 'violent deaths' was found as if the land was won over by battle against the Britons. Just a case of superior numbers and breeding by the Anglos and Saxons which the areas of Wales and Cornwall remained as Briton) story of Camelot was not only a fictitious propaganda of its day (before being Christianised, like Hollywood changing Tolkien's work to be more Woke/PC/etc) - but also, that it was also a 'borrowed' version of story from mainland Europe so long ago. The peoples of Britain before the Britons, were instead basically wiped out but for handfuls of women to be concubines as Genetic Tracing shows.
So back to his Mythology. JRRT's works are just something for the British to be proud of. A 'history' that although still based on mainland mythologies, is something adapted for the British to call their own.
If it 'evolves' into a Religion? Well, it was created in 'book' form - so a 'Temple' (Church is for Christianity) for Tolkienism can be more than justified and would only help preserve his work for generations to come.
Writing was created in Sumeria long ago. The Priests of the Temple of Ur worshipped 'Sin' or Ab-Sin-Nanna (in Sumerian) which is what we call the Moon today. Sin 'inspired' the Priests of Ur to 'create' Writing and long before Zarathustra used it to create the first Religion formed from local Pagan stories to make a 'Duality' for the first time. Writing was primarily used for 'logistical' reasons and record. Look closely at the two words: Ur and Sin... Sin-Ur (Sinner). You now see where Writing changed the world in the Middle-East with the Hebrew using writing and Zarathustra's works to create their own 'immortal' recording of the bloodline from their own Adam/Eve story to thus create the first of three Monotheisms (funny how there isn't a 'one' monotheism to symbolise the 'One God' aspect. Lol)

So yes, Tolkien Fans can form a 'Temple' for his works. This Forum, in a way - is like a Temple.

As for the poor people before the Britons came into those islands, well - before 6,000+ years. The British Isles was mostly inhabited by nomadics that came and went within the changes of the Ice Ages, when they were habitable. But like I said, they were hunted out by the first 'permanent' Britons so long ago. So in truth, Britain is basically a non-indigenous non-first-people nation. Especially when 'Neanderthals' (possible inspiration for stories of Ogres) were the first ones there much longer ago and for far longer still.

 

[Deimos]

So, it would be monotheistic; i.e no good/ bad or yin/yang duality.
The supreme deity is eternal and 'outside' of everything.
He creates angelic beings who are spirit in nature, and the highest and most powerful one rebels
So far it looks pretty familiar.

It starts to get sticky with the different races of people .
Some called the children of Illuvatar or First born, some created by another creature (Aule bringing forth the Dwarves** )
Yet priority in time of race's creation does not equate to superiority in character or goodness of that race.
It was Tolkien's universe and he could structure it as he liked.

But here, in our world?
Can't think of a better way to promote [more] class and race warfare than establishing a Church of Illuvatar here.
(But it would please Morgoth, I'm sure....)

**Tolkien's primal instance of sub-creation

 

[The Void]

If this Forum was a 'Temple' (Church, Synagogue, Mosque, etc) of Tolkien's work - would the Mods be considered 'Priests' or Holy Ones?
Would they be the Valar and the creator of this Forum be as Eru Illuvatar?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Nice idea -- but I suspect for some, it's more like

 

[Elthir]

I don't usually correct spelling [I misspell stuff too] but if anyone's gonna have a church, it's:

Ilúvatar

One L [even if you leave out the long marker/acute accent above the u, like I usually do, out of laziness]. The character for L in Elvish writing is pretty notable too!

Actually, I don't think it's really a spelling error as much as a visual trick, but stilll