Lord of the Rings on Prime Updates (Thanks Varking!)

[Annatar]

If these personal attacks and insults continue, this thread will have to be locked again.

Keep the discussion civil.

Thank you.

 

[Annatar]

Annetar, apparently I'm not allowed to comment on your edit so I'll just say that it is obvious you're looking in the mirror again.

If you have good arguments for once, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[Annatar]

If you have good arguments for once, feel free to send me a PM.

Even with this offer, the only response is - as always - a "LOL" emoji. How sad is that?

"So sad!"

 

[Annatar]

it will get watched

I agree, at least as far as seasons 1 to 2 are concerned, just because of curiosity.

It is sad that some of the threats being leveled at some of the actors in the series are a part of the reality of today.

What threats? These are certainly only very isolated extremists, if they exist at all - and that has nothing at all to do with the criticism of the series.
Sounds very far-fetched to me now, because you're on the defensive now. From my point of view, there are legitimate objections to the choices made by the clueless producers and series writers, and for good reasons of Tolkien lore, but no threats against specific actors.

Anyway, will watch, and will critique when it has been seen.

Yes, I will at least watch the first season as well to critique it. And I will also, as before, name the things I like, as for example some visuals of Tirion or Numenor. I see myself first and foremost as an objective Tolkien fan. And I expect the same from everyone else in an explicit Tolkien forum like this. Hopefully, this is not a covert Amazon fan site in the end.

At least I'm glad that you're finally trying to unpack some "arguments", so that a more or less meaningful discussion could come about. Keep it up! Although your stupid LOL emojies of course continue, but on the other hand you remain true to yourself. 👍

 

[Annatar]

For some reason

Since you comment on every post of mine with at least one emoji, I guess I'm the center of your online life. 😹
(And you probably only have an online life, too 😜).

Well, anyway. Let's just agree that I already don't like the Rings of Power series and that you won't like it until later...
Or is it more important to you to provoke? In that case, please really only by PM, otherwise I really have to ignore you from now on. "So sad..." 😥

 

[HALETH✒🗡]

No, I noticed that this series deliberately starts on the anniversary of Tolkien's death.

I noticed it too. Was it made on purpose?

So perhaps you're not a right-wing extremist (or racist). Point is, many who are ceaselessly braying on such topics are.

If I say that there're no yellow dogs, it doesn't mean that I don't like yellow parrots. My pet is a pretty yellow parrot.

 

[Annatar]

I noticed it too. Was it made on purpose?

Of course. The only question is what the intention is.
The optimists would say: you just had to choose some date that is connected to Tolkien and just happened to fit into the timetable.
The pessimists would say: It's a hidden indication that they want to destroy the Tolkien franchise with it, analogous to the new Star Wars trilogy.

Both are probably right. 😹

Here's a short video about the names of the fanfiction characters:

Also, those "Fellowship of Fans" guys have revealed some information about the main villain of the first season:

- Adar is a fallen elf, rumored to possibly be a brother of Galadriel.
- He leads a band of orcs who revere him as a father figure.
- He is in search of a magical talisman.
- His costume started out looking very orcish and evil, but was changed again to make him look more like an elf.

Does all this still have anything to do with Tolkien?
Not even remotely!

And here's another very special perversity: new covers for the Lord of the Rings books with motifs from the series:

Harper Collins and Folio Society publishing new editions of The Lord of the Rings

There's some movement on the Tolkien publishing front. People out there who are cover collectors (and the variety and number of covers that The Lord of the Rings has had over the years is pretty wild), will be especially interested. Rings of Power series tie-in covers First, Harper Collins...

www.theonering.net

 

[Annatar]

During an interview with Sam Maggs at Calgary Expo 2022, actor Sean Astin revealed that he’s already seen the preview… and it gave him chills.

“I for one am excited,” he said. “I saw the preview for it, and it gave me chills. It looked like they got it. I've been saying the whole time, they're gonna do it right. There's no way Amazon is gonna pay almost a billion dollars for a franchise just to screw it up.”

Lord Of the Rings' Sam Gamgee Actor Got 'Chills' From Watching Rings Of Power - IGN

The Lord of the Rings star Sean Astin is a fan of Amazon's The Rings of Power, explaining he got 'chills' when watching the preview.

www.ign.com

Yes, when an actor like him gets privileged access and then publicly proclaims it all as super good, it can only be a matter of bribery uhh I mean true joy. 👍

The upcoming series will [...] even includes some characters we know and love, even if they look a bit different.

Even some we know. Wow!

“It will bring new awareness to what we did, so it's all good,” he added

Aha. I see...

 

[HALETH✒🗡]

Lord Of the Rings' Sam Gamgee Actor Got 'Chills' From Watching Rings Of Power - IGN

The Lord of the Rings star Sean Astin is a fan of Amazon's The Rings of Power, explaining he got 'chills' when watching the preview.

www.ign.com

Yes, when an actor like him gets privileged access and then publicly proclaims it all as super good, it can only be a matter of bribery uhh I mean true joy. 👍


Even some we know. Wow!


Aha. I see...

Oh, Sam, I hardly recognize the hobbit that you used to be. You've changed.

 

[Annatar]

His enthusiasm has tweaked my tilt-o-meter a little more toward the positive.

You do know that he gets paid for it and doesn't do it for free? 😂

But I'm also convinced that at least the cities, buildings, etc. will look good. As I said, I also really liked the pictures of Valinor and Numenor. But what good is that if the rest doesn't fit. It will be just like Wheel of Time.

Here, for example, is a very nice image from Wheel of Time.
If you only knew this picture, you would think it was an atmospheric, good series. However, it is total garbage. I've seen it myself, unfortunately, but if you don't believe me, just check out the disastrous reviews on Amazon.

 

[Olorgando]

Do I hear more bleating whataboutism? Yes I do. Right on cue. 🤣

Seems you're more patient than I am, Hal ...

 

[Halasían]

Seems you're more patient than I am, Hal ...

I don't know about that. It is pretty pointless to even bother posting anything and hoping to talk about Rings of Power here really. I liked the John Howe piece and was just testing the waters.

 

[Olorgando]

I don't know about that. It is pretty pointless to even bother posting anything and hoping to talk about Rings of Power here really. I liked the John Howe piece and was just testing the waters.

Reminds me vaguely of some early threads I stumbled across in 2019. Pre-release of "Fellowship", with people speculating (probably quite wildly).
Same thing happened before the releases of "TT" and "RoTK". At least by then people had some inkling of what they might expect.
Some of those old threads - or at least some of the posts there - can be amusing reading 20 years later (or a bit less for "TT" and "RoTK").
But my overall impression was that nobody read Peter Jackson's mind correctly.
Which is why I find similar attempts with the current series (still almost four months before first airing) so pathetic.

 

[Annatar]

Compromise suggestion for you two funny Amazon shills and similarly minded:

Why don't you create your own exclusive thread:

"The Amazon Shill Thread: Only praise and positive criticism allowed here. Evil Annatars, stay out! We're thrilled!"

So far I'd be able to contribute - as mentioned several times - that I quite like the look of the cities and places we've seen so far, for which Howe is probably responsible. Likewise, I think the maps (published a long time ago) are ingenious.
Who knows, maybe there will be more things to appreciate in the future as well? But you have to start from the current status and look at it objectively, but especially HERE from the perspective of a Tolkien fan, also question it very critically.

But even if I make some concessions like e.g. in the design of cities, funnily enough, you still start wailing and gnashing your teeth, because you are in a detached mental bubble, which in my view has lost all contact with reality.
You don't provide any real arguments since the release of the trailer, you don't go into the content of the criticism at all, but can only help yourselves with embarrassing polemics and questionable insults, and all this from a seemingly elitist, arrogant point of view. But keep it up, you provide for my regular amusement. Even if the accusations of racism here weren't as completely stupid and violent as, for example, on theonering.net and their Twitter accounts, certain people here pointed out that the critics of the series only had this one skin color argument. This has since been refuted multiple times, but all other criticisms of the series have met with very moronic or malicious reactions from certain people here, which for Tolkien connoisseurs should be irrational anyway.

I'd promise you though, I would respect your "safe space" in the form of a "positive only thread" on this topic.

Even though I find your, in my humble opinion, rather moronic approach pathetic, I'm serious about that. I don't see things as black and white as you do, and would therefore be in favor of clearly highlighting the positive aspects of the series, too. Of course, such a thread would also be very subjective, and many would probably often contradict (as I do here), but that could be kept out of this thread, according to your predefined rules.
One could perhaps distinguish between two categories: does it a) make sense in principle for any (modern) series or b) does it make sense from a book point of view?

In any case, I see myself first and foremost as a loyal book and Tolkien fan. I largely ignore the Peter Jackson film adaptations. They had some good moments in my opinion (such as Howe's design here as well), but for the most part I dislike these films. But, because Olorgando started it, I have to point out again that early fan criticism at the time caused Arwen's role to be rewritten again to be closer to the books than PJ (or the producers, who knows) originally had wanted out of mainstream pandering. So it's positive to point out that early hardcore fan criticism did have the effect that the films were closer to the books than originally planned.
Thus, basically, I see it as very positive from my Tolkienist perspective when future adaptations are dissected and criticized by the fans as early and as severely as possible, in the hope that the producers will respond and try to change course again.

So PJ responded to at least some criticism at the time. Amazon has not yet addressed this sufficiently, although the criticism is extremely severe. Amazon first tried to denounce critical Tolkien fans as racists etc. (as already linked here for a few small examples), but this only caused a bigger rebellion from the fan-base. Now they seem to try it a little smarter. After the superwoke "superfans", Amazon has now spent a little more money to lure influential YouTubers into their web...

Here are two interesting videos on Amazon's recent invitations to so-called (or former real) Tolkien influencers.
I had subscribed to some of these "guests" a long time ago and used to think they were good, but they obviously don't have as much integrity as I thought.
At my work, by the way, it would not be allowed to accept such bribes for compliance reasons.

Over time, some formerly seemingly loyal Tolkien "influencers" attached more and more importance to their channel getting more followers and thus producing more money. Let's see if they speculated correctly. However, some may have also sold their souls for celebrity access and free vacations.

Somewhere in the comments, most of them worth reading, I found a wonderful metaphor:
Sauron handing out the 9 Rings to the kings of men. 👍

 

[Annatar]

I started a 'reasons to hate Rings of Power' thread and it was locked down in a day, so I doubt a 'reasons to love Rings of Power' thread would fare much better.

Well, your original thread was obviously meant ironically and was meant to denounce any criticism of the series from the beginning. Secondly, I was already registered in the forum at that time and can therefore confirm that your thread, in contrast to your current statement, was not censored immediately, but remained open for an extremely long time. And that, by the way, completely justified. For me, it is a completely legitimate opinion to find the series good before release, even if I have 1000 reasons to disagree.

Anyway, I didn't know this thread was locked. Is that true?

That this thread was locked due to pro-Amazon positions would have to be proven, especially since at least half of the active moderators are still rather positive about the series. So I think that's absolutely nonsensical - if anything, there was a lock due to extremists on my side, which I condemn as well.
Extremists are to be condemned in any case. It is important to remain factual and to respond to arguments, but here I'd basically assume that the average user accepts Tolkien literature as a basis and canon and therefore has at least got an intuitive understanding of what is appropriate.

 

[Annatar]

Tolkien based the 3 Hobbit tribes on the Jutes, Angles and Saxons who moved to the British Isles. Also, it is commonly known that the Hobbits represent the native English, rural population:

England in Middle-earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You'd like to think that Amazon has some real Tolkien experts on staff who pay attention to such things. But that is obviously not desired:
Amazon is apparently engaging in cultural appropriation to enforce its mandated quotas, as you can clearly see in this new image from the series, showing three "Hobbits":

This also makes me wonder how many characters will be gay or lesbian or trans so that the producers don't get fired for not meeting mandated quotas...

Let's get this straight: I have nothing against these actors, but they are as miscast in this role as a black woman as a Viking leader or a white man as a master samurai from Japanese myths would be miscast.
They could have been wonderfully cast as Haradrim, for example, or perhaps even as Druedain (who do occur in the Second Age as opposed to Hobbits).
I also have nothing against gay actors playing any roles. I do object when straight roles from the books are rewritten into gay roles for the film version.

It's just all against common sense. And against Tolkien's books.

In the end, it's all about nonsensical, immersion-destroying Amazon rules, as you can clearly see here:

• Each film or series with a creative team of three or more people in above-the-line roles (Directors, Writers, Producers) should ideally include a minimum 30% women and 30% members of an underrepresented racial/ethnic group. This will increase to 50% by 2024.
• Aiming to include one character from each of the following categories in speaking roles, with minimum 50% of these to be women: LGBTQIA+, person with a disability, and three regionally underrepresented race/ethnic/cultural groups.
• Seeking at least three bids from vendors or suppliers on productions, one of which must be from a woman-owned business and one from a minority-owned business.
• etc.

Amazon Studios Lays Out Diversity Guidelines With Inclusion Playbook

The Playbook sets hiring, casting and staffing guidelines

www.thewrap.com

First, these rules are not purposeful and do more harm than good, second, of course, it's all just total hypocrisy:

Bias, disrespect, and demotions: Black employees say Amazon has a race problem​

Bias, disrespect, and demotions: Black employees say Amazon has a race problem

Interviews with diversity managers and internal data obtained by Recode indicate that Black Amazon employees are promoted less frequently and are rated more harshly than non-Black peers.

www.vox.com

 

[Bahnz]

I'd promise you though, I would respect your "safe space" in the form of a "positive only thread" on this topic.

Even though I find your, in my humble opinion, rather moronic approach pathetic, I'm serious about that.

😆

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Orcs.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[Annatar]

They look just like PJ's.
(Which I think is okay in this case. I was never a PJ fan, but his orcs actually looked orcish and much better than the Warcraft orcs, for example).

Now for something completely different.

Amazon Prime / RoP commercial:

... and some comments:

Seems like the next PR disaster to me. This Amazon ad has 1264 likes and 21k dislikes.


One comment sums it up nicely:

So that kid is reading a book with no black elves, and likes it enough to go to a convention or something.
See Amazon, it doesn't matter where you come from, everyone enjoys Tolkien's work.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

his orcs actually looked orcish

Ah, but wait! Some True Fans are unhappy:

"Murdering Tolkien's Work," Amazon Turns 'Lord of the Rings' "Woke" With Female Orcs - Inside the Magic

Tolkien fans are divided after Amazon announces the addition of female Orcs in its 'Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power.'

insidethemagic.net

BTW -- while the Giant Slayer was doing his research, he might have researched how to pronounce "Tolkien". 😀