Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien

[Radaghast]

This is not another "Why didn't they use the Eagles" thread though that topic is briefly discussed here. This is more a thread examining the seemingly constant stream of "Why didn't..." questions on sites like Reddit and Quora. The Eagle-related ones. Ones that ask why the Valar don't intercede. Etc.

Questions about the Eagles and the Valar might be excusable (if not valid) if the askers don't look into the logistics of the story or the background of the writing of the book or, of course, the need to create an engaging story (and, truthfully, how many works of fiction are flawless and without contrivance?). Almost needless to say, Tolkien did not set out to write a sequel to The Hobbit of his own volition, but acquiescing to publisher and public request, he came up with The Lord of the Rings. In doing so, in choosing Bilbo's ring as the genesis of the idea that he would develop, he was perhaps operating under certain constraints. So, whatever flaws one might perceive in the work, I think one must consider the circumstances under which it was composed. If Tolkien had conceived of the idea of the Rings of Power from the start on his own (meaning without the demand for a follow-up to TH) we probably would have had something very different, and one possibly even better than what we were given. And what we got is fairly magnificent, especially considering the circumstances.

But there are some questions that go beyond the pale and look at other reasons why they think the course Tolkien took was the wrong one. One such question asks (to paraphrase), "Would it not have been more reasonable to give the Ring to someone who could control it, but not too strong so that the Ring could be taken from them?" 😕 To my answer in which I basically said, no, it would not be more reasonable, the person replied that the plan in the book is "stupid"; that Sauron should logically have figured out that, since the Ring was not being used against him, that he would have figured out that the plan was to destroy it. 🤨

Honestly, I couldn't be bothered to explain that the answer to this is in the book and that it takes more than a cursory reading to find it. If you don't accept the explanation, I guess take it or leave it and find something else to read, but I didn't even feel like saying that.

How would/do others here respond to such questions, if at all?

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

In response to the question you listed above: "Would it not have been more reasonable to give the Ring to someone who could control it, but not too strong so that the Ring could be taken from them?"

I would say no.

I don't even know if such someone exists. It takes a great deal of power to 'control' the Ring. I don't think honestly anyone did. In my own opinion, to be able to gain power and control over the Ring itself, you would need to have power that would rival that of Sauron himself, who made the Ring. Yes, indeed there are those who have such power, but the Ring would consume them, and they, especially with aid of the Ring, would become far too powerful and unable to be stopped. The only one who we see in The Lord of the Rings who really isn't affected by the Ring, is Tom Bombadil, and that raises the inquiry of "Why not Tom?" but Gandalf says himself that Tom would be most unsafe to bear it, and that such should never be attempted. Yes, the Ring had no hold on Tom, but Tom had no hold on it. It was just an external power, and it did not frighten him, nor did it delight him. It just was.

Gandalf likely had the power to wield or 'control' the Ring, but he would have become too great and too powerful. Galadriel, might have also had such power, but she is met with the same issue. Too much power. I am honestly quite sure that everyone in The Lord of the Rings was either too weak in power to control the Ring, or too powerful, for they could wield it, but it would consume them, and they could not be stopped.

In response to the comments ridiculing Tolkien's extraordinary plot and naming it, incorrectly, 'ridiculous':

No. It is not in the least bit a ridiculous plot. The Ring had been around for ages, and Sauron knew it so. It would have been almost beyond imagination to even think that someone would dare try and destroy it. To enter Mordor, was basically a sentence of death. To make it to Mt. Doom, you'd be almost guaranteed of it. I think a great part of how Frodo and Sam actually made it all the way through is that they were so small. I am not certain that if the whole Fellowship had been present, they would not have just been killed by Orcs or something. It would be completely unreasonable for anyone to think of destroying the Ring, especially because of it's enticing addictive qualities. Sauron would not imagine anyone making it that far.

Also, Sauron is Evil. He thinks in the ways of malice and hate, and walks in the paths of Darkness. The thought of 'for the sake of all Middle-Earth' or 'for the good of all' would not have really made sense to him. He was only working for himself. Anyone that he allied with or spent with, it was purely to benefit himself. And for this reason, I think in his mind, he would never have understood why anyone would destroy the Ring. Destroying it was no benefit to them, so why? He thought in terms of his own narcissistic view, and would not have thought about things in light of 'for the good of others'.

Frodo, on the other hand, is kind and giving of heart, thinking about 'saving The Shire' even at the cost of his own life.

I hope these answers meet satisfaction.

 

[Olorgando]

... the person replied that the plan in the book is "stupid"; that Sauron should logically have figured out that, since the Ring was not being used against him, that he would have figured out that the plan was to destroy it. Honestly, I couldn't be bothered to explain that the answer to this is in the book and that it takes more than a cursory reading to find it. If you don't accept the explanation, I guess take it or leave it and find something else to read, but I didn't even feel like saying that.

My reply would have been an extremely vicious "read the book, you dumb 💩!!!"
Occasionally, it's impossible to "put things nicely". 😡

 

[Radaghast]

My reply would have been an extremely vicious "read the book, you dumb 💩!!!"
Occasionally, it's impossible to "put things nicely". 😡

I used to give that as a common response. The book answers so many of these crazy questions that it leads me to conclude that the askers didn't read it and are just going by plot summary or the movies.

In the case of this person, I saw no point in even responding, since he thought it was so stupid. I just assumed the book is not for him and went on my way.

I hope these answers meet satisfaction.

Thank you. Of course, it's not me you have to convince 😉

Also, it occurs to me to remark on the contradictory nature of the question. Give the ring to someone so that they can defeat the Dark Lord yet is not so strong so they can still be defeated—specifically by confiscating the Ring.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Also, it occurs to me to remark on the contradictory nature of the question. Give the ring to someone so that they can defeat the Dark Lord yet is not so strong so they can still be defeated—specifically by confiscating the Ring.

I know. It makes no sense. I am pretty sure Illuvatar is like the only one who could actually wield the Ring and not be completely corrupted.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

sites like Reddit and Quora

So, still going there, huh? And after my "hints and warnings". 😄

OK, I'm not immune either: this one popped up for me this morning:

Answer to What did Gandalf mean in The Two Towers when he said, "Indeed I am Saruman one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."? by Jim Jagielski https://www.quora.com/What-did-Gand...share=8deba0ae&srid=u37ljO&target_type=answer

I linked it because of an aspect you didn't mention: the answers. The Istari are "ranked"? And by color? Where the heck does that come from?

The shortest answer to most criticisms comes from Northop Frye:

For many of the flaws which an inexperienced critic thinks he detects, the answer "But it's supposed to be that way" is sufficient.

 

[Radaghast]

So, still going there, huh? And after my "hints and warnings". 😄

I'm starting to keep away from the "wretched hive of scum and villainy" that is Reddit. Quora is not a great site but seems more hospitable, despite the constant influx of stupid questions.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Well, you get what you pay for. 😄

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Well, you get what you pay for. 😄

Except with this Forum!

You don't pay a penny-- and you get the perfect Tolkien site!

A true gift from Illuvatar.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

You don't pay a penn

Same with Reddit-- but without the quality. 😉

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Same with Reddit-- but without the quality. 😉

'Tis true. This truly is the best and most superb Forum ever-- especially for Tolkien lovers, like me.

 

[Olorgando]

... This is more a thread examining the seemingly constant stream of "Why didn't..." questions on sites like Reddit and Quora. ...

Has the question "Does Tom Bombadil have wings?" popped up there yet?

Jes' askin' ... 😁😎😈

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Has the question "Does Tom Bombadil have wings?" popped up there yet?

Jes' askin' ... 😁😎😈

That is an odd inquiry.. Where does it even remotely indicate he does?

 

[Radaghast]

Olorgando was joking but I just saw another question on Quora asking, "Is Beorn Tom Bombadil?" which is just as nutty 😂

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Olorgando was joking but I just saw another question on Quora asking, "Is Beorn Tom Bombadil?" which is just as nutty 😂

Wow. Yes it is....
Do they even know Lord of the Rings at all?

 

[Radaghast]

My guess is many people have an interest in Tolkien and his legendarium but don't want to commit to reading any of it.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

"I really like Mexican food. I just don't want to try any".

 

[Radaghast]

Of course, Quora is also a site where some users spam questions hoping to get paid, thanks to the site's annoying "Partnership Program". So some of these people may not even be sincerely interested and just research discussions and come up with silly questions.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

My guess is many people have an interest in Tolkien and his legendarium but don't want to commit to reading any of it.

You are likely correct in that assessment. It is intimidating by sheer size and measure-- but the commitment is worth it, as it is beyond rewarding.

 

[Radaghast]

Another odd question: "In Glorfindel prophecy, is 'mortal man' male or a person, or is it open to interpretation?"

Why do people have this need to complicate things? It's not like Glorfindel's words can be tested.