Can Humans, 🧝Elves, and Dwarves Breed Together like 🧌Orcs and Humans?

[Goldilocks Gamgee]

So, orcs and humans can breed, at least for Saruman. Does this mean that human-dwarf, human-elf, and elf-dwarf hybrids are also possible? I've been wondering this for a while now.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

So, orcs and humans can breed, at least for Saruman. Does this mean that human-dwarf, human-elf, and elf-dwarf hybrids are also possible? I've been wondering this for a while now.

Human-elf is definitely possible - Elrond, Elros, Arwen, etc.

Don't know about the rest, but Elf-Maia is also possible - Lúthien Tinúviel, anyone?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'd think Dwarf-anything would be out. But Saruman was apparently doing human-orc, so who knows?

 

[Goldilocks Gamgee]

I'd think Dwarf-anything would be out.

Peter Jackson obviously disagrees.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Hmm. You're right-- that orc clearly finds Kili attractive. 🤔

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Hmm. You're right-- that orc clearly finds Kili attractive. 🤔

I found that scene beautiful - Tauriel's words about love hurting so much, acts as a direct contrast to Thranduil's earlier words that her love for Kili "isn't real". I daresay, Thranduil had a change of heart in the moment of Kili's fall, and after.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

 

[Ent]

Hmm. You're right-- that orc clearly finds Kili attractive. 🤔

which does not mean they could successfully breed. Of course - his dwarves overall are just a little too 'human' in a way.
Dwarves, made by Aule of earth and stone, are entirely different than the Elves and Men of Eru's creation.
One wonders.
Even of they could breed inter-species, would the offspring be sterile, much as the product of a horse and a donkey, who can produce hinnies or mules, but those offspring cannot reproduce any further?

THWACK. To the Great Halls with you, oh thoughts..!

 

[Halasían]

... But Saruman was apparently doing human-orc, so who knows?

I had always interpreted Sarumann's bonding of Dunlanding and Orc was in various degrees of experimentation as he worked to perfect the Uruk-Hai. I'd think there would be more Orcish blends and more mannish blends, of which I thought that squint-eyed southerner at the Prancing pony was more mannish with orcish features. Just my head-canon on that.

 

[Ent]

I had always interpreted Sarumann's bonding of Dunlanding and Orc was in various degrees of experimentation as he worked to perfect the Uruk-Hai. I'd think there would be more Orcish blends and more mannish blends, of which I thought that squint-eyed southerner at the Prancing pony was more mannish with orcish features. Just my head-canon on that.

Hum. From what I'm reading here, the original Uruk-hai were Sauron's and their name was given them by Sauron... "a new strain of Orcs bred by him in Mordor towards the end of the Third Age...created by the blending of the races of Orcs and Men."

"However, the Uruk-hai did not remain exclusively in Sauron’s service. By the time of the War of the Ring a great number formed the backbone of the Army of Isengard,"

"Saruman himself attempted further genetic experiments with this race of ‘Great Orcs’, with singularly unhappy results – creatures known as ‘Half-orcs’ which were said (by Saruman’s enemies) to be the result of cross-breeding between the Uruk-hai and certain degenerate Men in his service."

This is all from J.E.A. Tyler's "Complete Tolkien Companion" - which I don't know how reliable is.

If true, once again it shows all Saruman could manage was cheap copies - counterfeits of others' work.

Anyway, I'll need to do a bunch of digging on Orcs now.

(I think the wisdom of the Dúnedain is to bring others to think, and to work things out..! )

 

[arivista]

I found that scene beautiful - Tauriel's words about love hurting so much, acts as a direct contrast to Thranduil's earlier words that her love for Kili "isn't real". I daresay, Thranduil had a change of heart in the moment of Kili's fall, and after.

"You know, you convinced me, your feelings for this young hottie dwarf whom you've met couple of times and who made a dirty joke to you when you've first met - that was totes true love, no doubt about it!"

 

[Ent]

"You know, you convinced me, your feelings for this young hottie dwarf whom you've met couple of times and who made a dirty joke to you when you've first met - that was totes true love, no doubt about it!"

Hey. It was clearly enough for her. 😁

But I'm reminded of a quote in another move: "there is more of gravy than of grave about you." (Scrooge, George C. Scott version. Also in the book I think.)

Here we just have "there is more of lust than of love about you."

It's the reason the divorce rate is so high in the world today (if people even bother getting married to begin with.)

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I thought that squint-eyed southerner at the Prancing pony was more mannish with orcish features.

Thanks. I can at least walk upright!

 

[ZehnWaters]

I found that scene beautiful - Tauriel's words about love hurting so much, acts as a direct contrast to Thranduil's earlier words that her love for Kili "isn't real". I daresay, Thranduil had a change of heart in the moment of Kili's fall, and after.

I honestly have no issues with this addition...per se. I actually liked these two. The chemistry was good and they were sweetly written. Should it have been in the film? Probably not. But I find it hard to believe that over the course of 6500+ years NO Dwarf and Elf fell in love. It's theoretically POSSIBLE.

But I'm reminded of a quote in another move: "there is more of gravy than of grave about you." (Scrooge, George C. Scott version. Also in the book I think.)

I think it was in the books as well since they say it in the Muppet version.

Here we just have "there is more of lust than of love about you."

To be fair, we know the Elves experience emotions more deeply than others. I think for these two it was more about the possibility the other represented than lust. One could argue, then, they were in love with the IDEA of the other person than with the person themselves. Which, to be fair, can be the beginning of love.

So, orcs and humans can breed, at least for Saruman. Does this mean that human-dwarf, human-elf, and elf-dwarf hybrids are also possible? I've been wondering this for a while now.

Theoretically. It would depend on their genetic composition. I think Dwarves would be the ones least likely to be able to mate with the other races.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

"You know, you convinced me, your feelings for this young hottie dwarf whom you've met couple of times and who made a dirty joke to you when you've first met - that was totes true love, no doubt about it!"

Well - that's a very different way of putting it.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Theoretically. It would depend on their genetic composition. I think Dwarves would be the ones least likely to be able to mate with the other races.

I would agree - considering they were Aule's creation, not Eru's. Orcs were corrupted Eldar, but the Naugrim stood as a race of its own, different to the rest.

 

[ZehnWaters]

I would agree - considering they were Aule's creation, not Eru's. Orcs were corrupted Eldar, but the Naugrim stood as a race of its own, different to the rest.

Made in an entirely different manner and apart. Yes. Even the Orcs had, potentially (depending on WHEN Tolkien was writing) Elf ancestry, Human ancestry, or a mix of both. This leaves out only the Dwarves (Hobbits being human, technically).

 

[Ent]

To be fair, we know the Elves experience emotions more deeply than others. I think for these two it was more about the possibility the other represented than lust. One could argue, then, they were in love with the IDEA of the other person than with the person themselves. Which, to be fair, can be the beginning of love.

Well, Romeo and Juliet did have to be in there somewhere.
(Which, for as much as Tolkien said he hated allegory, his works sure included a lot of.)
But this Romeo and Juliet were not of his invention of course.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Well, Romeo and Juliet did have to be in there somewhere.

Yet 'tis not fully such - one fell, the other possibly returned to Mirkwood.

 

[ZehnWaters]

Well, Romeo and Juliet did have to be in there somewhere.
(Which, for as much as Tolkien said he hated allegory, his works sure included a lot of.)
But this Romeo and Juliet were not of his invention of course.

lol true. While I understand the hatred for that storyline, I think the hatred is taken too far. They were sweet, if out of place.