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Why Hollywood Butchers Tolkien

Trevaduin

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Hoping to repeat Peter Jackson’s stunning success with Lord of the Rings, Amazon Prime will soon air the “Rings of Power” also derived from J.R.R. Tolkien. Whether Prime subscribers enjoy the series is yet to be seen, but Tolkien fans worldwide already greet it with cynical derision.

And they have reason. To many Tolkien fans his brilliance wasn’t just a good story, but the objective truths that created it. Tolkien was a leading Inkling, the Oxford literary society dedicated to portraying Christian values in popular culture. The Amazon creators of Rings of Power are about as “Christian” as you’d expect from Hollywood, and the show’s underwriters were sufficiently mercenary to announce their project as “the next Game of Thrones.” To Tolkien fans, that was blasphemy.

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien was once asked which of his major literary works would be his legacy. To the surprise of many, his answer was neither Lord of the Rings, nor the Hobbit, nor his seminal English translation of Beowulf, nor his coursework text of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. He cited his role as “assistant etymologist” on the Oxford English Dictionary. Words, especially their derivation, usage and changing meaning, were Tolkien’s greatest fascination.

This explains his very unique writing style. Starting with a single word, like “handkerchief,” he would picture the object, adding detail as the image arose in his mind: was it silk, or wool, plain or monographed? From this mental image he would write a backstory supporting each detail based on “common-sensed and ancient” rules. He knew these “timeless truisms” as Oxford’s resident scholar on Anglo-Saxon and Norse folk history, drawing from oral traditions dating back several millennia.

As a result, Tolkien’s characters have a “realness” about them, as though we know them and recognize friends and neighbors among them. Their interactions are familiar as well. Tolkien didn’t write to astonish or shock or introduce other-worldly bizarreness. Quite the opposite, he wrote about a completely mythical world where friends, enemies, allies, rivals and entire communities behave exactly as time-tested morals and years of sage wisdom would predict.

It is Tolkien’s obsession with underlying “truth” that has fans pessimistic about Hollywood’s ability to faithfully re-tell the Rings of Power. For one, the scripts for this new streaming series, eight episodes in the first season, are based on the flimsiest of source materials: a short appendix found at the end of the Return of the King, giving a history leading to creation of the One Ring.

And also, “objective truth” is not Hollywood’s strong point. Tolkien mastered the obvious without calling attention to it. He chided fellow Inkling scholar, C.S. Lewis, with the observation, “Yes, we get it, the Lion is Christ.” “Allegory is for children” he would say. Tolkien believed complex truths become apparent only when deeply embedded in the ebb and flow of real life.

Lord of the Rings features many un-married men with close male companions. How many are gay? None, or all? Tolkien’s “truth” is to avoid judgement, and beyond that, it’s none of our business.

Contrast this to the “woke” style of modern Hollywood. In today’s scripts it is obligatory to introduce new characters with stereotyped traits making it clear which “representation” the screenwriters just checked. Tolkien would find this both condescending and hypocritical.

Tolkien himself spurned politics, finding Conservative and Labour parties guilty of peddling false simplicities. His fictional history, on which the Rings of Power is based, weaves a far richer tapestry of how strengths and weaknesses, in self or in leadership, can either save or damn a society.

In his review of “The Lord of the Rings,” C.S. Lewis wrote, “As we read, we find ourselves sharing their burden; when we have finished, we return to our own life not relaxed, but fortified.” It’s an enormous legacy for the Rings of Power to uphold. Let us hope that, at a minimum, an attempt is made.
 
I do believe there's an element to "cynical derision" that is true.
Many Tolkien fans are indeed cynical - i.e. that part of the definition that is "concerned only with one's own interests."
And sadly, that has become connected with the Religion of Opinion, which states that 'i am god and with my opinion you must agree.'

They are Zealots. And they seem to be intentionally infiltrating every place they can go, using every opportunity to 'stir the pot', seeking to sway others to their cause.

I believe it is these Zealots that, taking center stage, SEEM to make it feel like there are "MANY fans worldwide"... (trying to imply the majority perhaps?) only because the few keep fomenting the furor everywhere they go, keeping the discussion center stage.

(I do not myself speak of either "Pro ROP" or "Anti ROP" people specifically here, but rather both. It "takes two to tango" as the overused old saw goes. However, it is always true that the "Anti-" bunch in any crowd are the most vocal. For some reason negativity just seeks and breeds negativity like a gravitational pull.)

I would like to believe that much if not most of humanity can still stand above an obsessive hatred of something, and are given to reflective thought rather than obsequiously following along in the path of the loudest voices.

But I may be mistaken. There are indicators that the race of man is losing the ability to think outside the direction of the "talking heads". (But let us not discuss the educational systems and intentional directions taken to place him in that ultimate state of slavery of mind.)

In the end, it is going to be what it is going to be.
The thinking will make their own decisions about it.
The unthinking will have pre-disposed themselves regarding what they are going to think, based on the zealots and talking heads they've chosen to follow (on both the ultra-positive and the ultra-negative sides) and will be unable to break their predisposition. Some few may actually wake up from either category, and be able to change based on their own experiences.
This is the nature of man.

"OPINION: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge." When we form our opinion, what is the basis for it? Its fidelity to Tolkien only? It's cinematography? It's acting quality? It's casting? It's costuming? it's what, exactly? For each person it COULD differ. Unless of course, we take a very narrow view, and focus only on certain elements. Until we have all the facts at hand, how can we judge? We are by necessity limiting ourselves only to the currently known - which may or may not be biased based on the source that is presenting us our information.

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." (Gandalf to Frodo of course.)

Meanwhile, this obsession with ROP becomes incredibly boring (for me), and I really do not look forward to the first few months after its airing...!
Bad as the obsessive behavior is now, it's nothing compared to what's about to be visited upon us all.

I do not mind if one shares his or her opinion. Ever. As long as it is understood it is an opinion, and does not require agreement. From any one at any time. I guarantee us all, that NO ONE looks at all things the same way the "I" looks at them. Our universes are simply different. They merely interact with one another. They do not merge and become one universe. Such is the nature of the creation.
 
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And sadly, that has become connected with the Religion of Opinion, which states that 'i am god and with my opinion you must agree.'
They are Zealots. And they seem to be intentionally infiltrating every place they can go, using every opportunity to 'stir the pot', seeking to sway others to their cause.
I believe it is these Zealots that, taking center stage,
Having just re-read Tom Shippey's 2003 3rd edition of "The Road to Middle-earth", I have a quote from William Golding, author of "Lord of the Flies" which appeared in the same year as JRRT's "Lord":

"I must say that anyone who passed through those years [of World War II] without understanding that man produces evil as a bee produces honey. must have been blind or wrong in the head."

And in this gender-sensitive age I find the term I have highlighted in Golding's above quote to be approximately 99.9999% correct.
 
'Tolkien Fan' does not automatically equate to having 'cynical derision' of Rings of Power'.
Yeah, amazingly I'm a Tolkien fan and looking forward to Rings of Power. And as I've said many times, it's apparently really hard to just turn off the TV/not watch if you don't like it.

boom-mind-blown.gif


And just to feed the crazy conspiracy theorists....over 600 million copies of Tolkien books have been sold, so unless Jeff Bezos and Amazon somehow can change what's written in physical books, Tolkien's original books/messages aren't going anywhere because of some TV show....
 
Yeah, amazingly I'm a Tolkien fan and looking forward to Rings of Power. And as I've said many times, it's apparently really hard to just turn off the TV/not watch if you don't like it.

boom-mind-blown.gif


And just to feed the crazy conspiracy theorists....over 600 million copies of Tolkien books have been sold, so unless Jeff Bezos and Amazon somehow can change what's written in physical books, Tolkien's original books/messages aren't going anywhere because of some TV show....


There you go with those "fact" things again..!! 😁
 
And just to feed the crazy conspiracy theorists....over 600 million copies of Tolkien books have been sold, so unless Jeff Bezos and Amazon somehow can change what's written in physical books, Tolkien's original books/messages aren't going anywhere because of some TV show....
Stepping onto a soapbox real quick.

I will likely watch the show as entertainment for the vistas of ME and to see someone else's idea of what Beleriand and Numenor look like. But I will dislike the show because it will add or twist the mythology by adding modernity and a cookie cutter plot to the mythos, removing why I enjoy middle earth. Clicking on a link the other day from here, I came across Philosophicat's recent video transcript. Now I could care less about the personal ideologies and pushing politics obviously included in the show but some phrases she used explain how I feel about the show.



"Lord of the Rings is fundamentally a European mythology and contains deep symbolic elements that are particularly meaningful in the context of European spirituality. This is not to say that other people could not also find meaning in them, but they do need to be preserved intact regardless. When you start twisting the story of the myth to make it fall in line with the globalist vision of a utopia, you begin to obscure the truth. Little by little, the twisting of the story to suit modern agendas causes the deeper truths to fade from view, until the myth is no longer a myth, but merely something banal meant to entertain or propagandise, rather than to inspire or instruct"

My opinion of why Tolkien's works are so popular is because he created a mythos, where only the details important to the heroes journey are included, and the minute details of peoples thoughts, fears, doubts, and actions are ignored. Tolkiens works are like all great myths, with symbolic details about obstacles, feats of strength or betrayal, that leave out details so the reader or listener, as the legendarium reflects oral mythos of britannic and norse history, can fill in the details of their lives.

Unsure of everyone's age attending this thread, but those who were exposed to LOTR before the PJ movies were still primarily exposed to the books first and Tolkien's direct works first, yeah yeah about the animated hobbit. And there are others on this site like myself were were exposed to the movies first, and could argue that we were still drawn to the books, but we are also a select few that also participate in a TOLKIEN FORUM and are likely a very very very small percentage of the population. And huge Nerds. But the majority of people exposed to Middle Earth due to PJs movies take them as Tolkien's canon. We see some argue on here every once in a while, and frequently on reddit, YouTube, etc. The younger generations don't read books for pleasure compared to previous ones. It is a fact. Most people just watched the movies and now believe that elves could perform flying leaping Legolas moments. And we should consider ourselves blessed that the LOTR movies while, they had their differences, mostly reflected the telling of a mythology, and Tolkiens mythology. Lets hope the Hobbits are forgotten about. I believe this Amazon show, in order to create a story from a handful of pages, is taking known characters and creating plots and character traits that Tolkien purposely leaves out of his works and making entertainment from mythos.


So Erestor Arcamen, in this matter I believe you are a fool of a Took! Especially of the younger generations, which is the future of Middle Earth's consumers, will watch this Amazon show, and whatever happens in this show, will be taken as canon.

*TrollinSun and his soapbox are destroyed in a hit and run by TORn "volunteers" driving blue Amazon vans*
 
Stepping onto a soapbox real quick.

I will likely watch the show as entertainment for the vistas of ME and to see someone else's idea of what Beleriand and Numenor look like. But I will dislike the show because it will add or twist the mythology by adding modernity and a cookie cutter plot to the mythos, removing why I enjoy middle earth. Clicking on a link the other day from here, I came across Philosophicat's recent video transcript. Now I could care less about the personal ideologies and pushing politics obviously included in the show but some phrases she used explain how I feel about the show.



"Lord of the Rings is fundamentally a European mythology and contains deep symbolic elements that are particularly meaningful in the context of European spirituality. This is not to say that other people could not also find meaning in them, but they do need to be preserved intact regardless. When you start twisting the story of the myth to make it fall in line with the globalist vision of a utopia, you begin to obscure the truth. Little by little, the twisting of the story to suit modern agendas causes the deeper truths to fade from view, until the myth is no longer a myth, but merely something banal meant to entertain or propagandise, rather than to inspire or instruct"

My opinion of why Tolkien's works are so popular is because he created a mythos, where only the details important to the heroes journey are included, and the minute details of peoples thoughts, fears, doubts, and actions are ignored. Tolkiens works are like all great myths, with symbolic details about obstacles, feats of strength or betrayal, that leave out details so the reader or listener, as the legendarium reflects oral mythos of britannic and norse history, can fill in the details of their lives.

Unsure of everyone's age attending this thread, but those who were exposed to LOTR before the PJ movies were still primarily exposed to the books first and Tolkien's direct works first, yeah yeah about the animated hobbit. And there are others on this site like myself were were exposed to the movies first, and could argue that we were still drawn to the books, but we are also a select few that also participate in a TOLKIEN FORUM and are likely a very very very small percentage of the population. And huge Nerds. But the majority of people exposed to Middle Earth due to PJs movies take them as Tolkien's canon. We see some argue on here every once in a while, and frequently on reddit, YouTube, etc. The younger generations don't read books for pleasure compared to previous ones. It is a fact. Most people just watched the movies and now believe that elves could perform flying leaping Legolas moments. And we should consider ourselves blessed that the LOTR movies while, they had their differences, mostly reflected the telling of a mythology, and Tolkiens mythology. Lets hope the Hobbits are forgotten about. I believe this Amazon show, in order to create a story from a handful of pages, is taking known characters and creating plots and character traits that Tolkien purposely leaves out of his works and making entertainment from mythos.


So Erestor Arcamen, in this matter I believe you are a fool of a Took! Especially of the younger generations, which is the future of Middle Earth's consumers, will watch this Amazon show, and whatever happens in this show, will be taken as canon.

*TrollinSun and his soapbox are destroyed in a hit and run by TORn "volunteers" driving blue Amazon vans*


HELLO. Here's the deal.
I just visited yet another 'facebook group' and discovered the entire populace there already (and continually) discussing PJ's "the hobbit" movies, and wondering where Orcrist had gone because it wasn't still with Legolas.

And not ONE asked how in the world Orcrist came to be with Legolas to begin with. Not one..!
The entire discussion was speculation about 'whether it might be hidden on his other hip given the angle of the picture, but no that can't be because he usually wears it on his left hip,' blah blah blah.

I fear your concern about "taking the movies as canon" has happened well before Amazon's involvement.

"Few there are that know the facts...."
 
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HELLO. Here's the deal.
I just visited yet another 'facebook group' and discovered the entire populace there already (and continually) discussing PJ's "the hobbit" movies, and wondering where Orcrist had gone because it wasn't still with Legolas.

And not ONE asked how in the world Orcrist came to be with Legolas to begin with. Not one..!

I fear your concern about "taking the movies as canon" has happened well before Amazon's involvement.

"Few there are that know the facts...."
Haha yikes, if I had a Facebook, that's a group I would avoid. Or troll really really hard.

I agree with many taking the movies will canon already. I just dread how much further Amazon is going to both purposely subvert the legendarium, and forever influence those who think the show is canon.

I wish instead of the Amazon show, Ted-ed had a big sponsor let the myths department animate (I know, I know) some of the stories. I actually like their animations of many myths.

 
When you start twisting the story of the myth to make it fall in line with the globalist vision of a utopia, you begin to obscure the truth. Little by little, the twisting of the story to suit modern agendas causes the deeper truths to fade from view, until the myth is no longer a myth, but merely something banal meant to entertain or propagandise, rather than to inspire or instruct"
Wait -- who's politics are "obvious" here?

I recommend getting a dog.
 
Haha yikes, if I had a Facebook, that's a group I would avoid. Or troll really really hard.

I agree with many taking the movies will canon already. I just dread how much further Amazon is going to both purposely subvert the legendarium, and forever influence those who think the show is canon.

I wish instead of the Amazon show, Ted-ed had a big sponsor let the myths department animate (I know, I know) some of the stories. I actually like their animations of many myths.


Sadly, I've found this to be common on almost every facebook group I've visited (and become member of in 3 cases) including the Tolkien Society's own facebook page.

I have ultimately abandoned them all. They simply are not places where there is a return on the investment of time chugging through the nonsense to get to some meaningful information.

Of course, it's a bit selfish on my part because my interests are quite specific, a bit 'purist' at this point, and time is so precious to me given my age.

That said, I am also old and wise enough to be able to appreciate things like PJs work and this RoP coming up for what they are rather than for what they are not.

It is not up to the profiteers and borrowers of the world to point to the original works and their superiority etc. for those who haven't yet introduced themselves to them.

It is up to those who KNOW those works to do so.

"So has it always been. So it shall always be."
 
Wait -- who's politics are "obvious" here?

I recommend getting a dog.
Woof

sorry forgot a few edits. I was trying to keep politics out of my post and just explain why I think film is not good for the retelling of myths and how it'll affect the future generations.

"When you start twisting the story of the myth, you begin to obscure the truth. Little by little, the twisting of the story to suit modern storytelling styles causes the deeper truths to fade from view, until the myth is no longer a myth, but merely something banal meant to entertain or propagandise, rather than to inspire or instruct"

It is up to those who KNOW those works to do so.
Agreed, at work we have been having a whiteboard academics discussion about the Silmarillion for a while. Other coworkers come in, look and the board and have no clue what is going on lol.
 
Woof

sorry forgot a few edits. I was trying to keep politics out of my post and just explain why I think film is not good for the retelling of myths and how it'll affect the future generations.

"When you start twisting the story of the myth, you begin to obscure the truth. Little by little, the twisting of the story to suit modern storytelling styles causes the deeper truths to fade from view, until the myth is no longer a myth, but merely something banal meant to entertain or propagandise, rather than to inspire or instruct"
That's exactly what I quoted.

I think you may have missed my point about the dog.
 
"When you start twisting the story of the myth, you begin to obscure the truth. Little by little, the twisting of the story to suit modern storytelling styles causes the deeper truths to fade from view, until the myth is no longer a myth, but merely something banal meant to entertain or propagandise, rather than to inspire or instruct"

This is, of course, how Melkor deceived others time and again... though it doesn't apply to just myths. It applies to virtually everything. It's how people are brainwashed.

That said, the defense is KNOWING this and behaving accordingly.

Which I personally do not feel is done by going site to site, stirring up controversy, and trying to 'shout down the competition' or overwhelm them with contrary input.
(NOTE: I said I PERSONALLY do not feel this. It is my 'opinion,' so every one is free to disagree. It is not said or intended to start up controversy, shut down competition, or overwhelm folks with contrary input. ☺️)
 
Addressing the post title:
Because most people aren't interested in the higher things Tolkien strives for and Hollywood appeals to the mass audience. Not necessarily out of malice but out of necessity (you can't fund a project that large without a return). It's easier to appeal to the baser elements of our minds. A desire for action, triumph, and flashy special effects.

What's more, the only thing rarer than appreciation for Tolkien's work, is someone of Tolkien's calibre.
 
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Addressing the post title:
Because most people aren't interested in the higher things Tolkien strives for and Hollywood appeals to the mass audience. Not necessarily out of malice but out of necessity (you can't fund a project that large without a return). It's easier to appeal to the baser elements of our minds. A desire for action, triumph, and flashy special effects.

What's more, the only thing rarer than appreciation for Tolkien's work, is someone of Tolkien's calibre.

Indeed. The one thing you may have left out (intentionally) is right after "flashy special effects" you might add "fleshly pursuits."
 

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