Did Celeborn also fight in the battles of Beleriand?

[Turin_Turambar]

As you all know, the sindar prince of doriath, celeborn, actively fought in some wars in the war of the ring and all the wars in war of the elves and sauron, even in war of the last alliance. But the only thing that tolkien doesn't dwell on about celeborn is whether celeborn participated in the battles of beleriand, although he was born in doriath in years of the trees. even though he is a warrior elf, some people claim that celeborn was not in the main battles of beleriand. It is certain information that celeborn did not participate in dagor-nuin-giliath. But do you think celeborn fought in other main battles of beleriand namely first battle, dagor aglareb, dagor bragollach, nirnaeth arnoediad, and war of wrath?

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

He probably fought in the only battle that Thingol fought against Morgoth,so to answer your question,he technically did,but it is not known that he fought along side the Noldor

 

[Turin_Turambar]

He probably fought in the only battle that Thingol fought against Morgoth,so to answer your question,he technically did,but it is not known that he fought along side the Noldor

Although he is not known that he fought alongside the noldor, he may have fought in dagor aglareb dagor bragollach nirnaeth arnoediad and even in the war of wrath along with most sindar elves such as beleg and mablung and other elves of doriath and falas elves. for in all the main battles of beleriand some sindar elves fought alongside the noldor elves.

 

[Elthir]

But the only thing that tolkien doesn't dwell on about celeborn is whether celeborn participated in the battles of beleriand, . . .

And I'm fairly certain that Celeborn doesn't appear, nor is even mentioned at all, anywhere in Tolkien's own Quenta Silmarillion.

Unless I missed something (easily possible of course), every mention of Celeborn in the 1977 Quenta Silmarillion is an editorial addition by Christopher Tolkien, even the one where it's said that there was "great love" between Celeborn and Galadriel -- as this was rather said of Galadriel and Melian in JRR Tolkien's version, although his wording there was "much love".

But do you think celeborn fought in other main battles of beleriand namely first battle, dagor aglareb, dagor bragollach, nirnaeth arnoediad, and war of wrath?

First Battle Celeborn isn't mentioned (not surprisingly), but it seems plausible he would take part in some way. Not everyone at a battle actually fights; but maybe Celeborn did.

Aglareb I see no great reason to think so. Fingolfin and Maedros are noted as destroying the main ork host, and it's not said here (at least) who the "others" were who sought out the scattered bands of orks that had strayed into Beleriand.

Bragollach Well, no force from Doriath is mentioned, and there are Grey-elves here that: "fled south and forsook the northern war; many were received in Doriath, and the kingdom and strength of Thingol grew greater in that time . . ."

Later we are told that Thingol ultimately sent Beleg Strongbow into Brethil.

Beleg

That said, there is a detail from the Grey Annals that was not taken up into Christopher Tolkien's constructed Silmarillion -- that, after the Bragollach, the army that had driven into East Beleriand had been "broken" by Thingol on the borders of Doriath, so that part of the bad guys fled south, and part north, while those that ventured near the mountains were hunted by Dwarves.

Again, not in the 1977 Silmarillion.

Nirnaeth No, not in my opinion.

It's said that no one out of Doriath came to this battle “save Mablung, and Beleg who could not be restrained" [JRRT, Quenta Silmarillion, The Lost Road] or “Mablung of Doriath with a small force of Grey-elves” [Grey Annals, wherein it was said that Mablung was unwilling to have no part in these great deeds] or no aid from Doriath is mentioned, at least [Narn version] compare the constructed Silmarillion, Christopher Tolkien: “nor any out of Doriath save Mablung and Beleg, who were unwilling to have no part in these great deeds.”

If anyone wants to take the Grey Annals version, I still think it's doubtful that Celeborn was in this "small force" (arguably under Mablung's leadership). In any case, the version that Christopher Tolkien published [Mablung and Beleg only] remains unrevised on the later typescript copy of this Silmarillion chapter -- if Tolkien simply never got round to revising it, or was considering keeping it, even as a variant -- again, who can know.

War of Wrath Not in my opinion. This depends upon the history of Celeborn with respect to the First Age.

For myself, I've recently opted to take Tolkien-published text (as opposed to Tolkien-written text), and go with the implication in The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, that Celeborn and Galadriel had departed from Beleriand before the War of Wrath.

Anywho, all just my opinions.

 

[Ent]

As you all know, the sindar prince of doriath, celeborn, actively fought in some wars in the war of the ring and all the wars in war of the elves and sauron, even in war of the last alliance.

Ent does not know this for sure, though the statement is declarative, and he is (slowly but actively) working on developing background regarding it.
Thank you for this discussion.

He probably fought in the only battle that Thingol fought against Morgoth,so to answer your question,he technically did,but it is not known that he fought along side the Noldor

Thank you for your contribution to the subject.

Anywho, all just my opinions.

And thank you for yours.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

And I'm fairly certain that Celeborn doesn't appear, nor is even mentioned at all, anywhere in Tolkien's own Quenta Silmarillion.

Unless I missed something (easily possible of course), every mention of Celeborn in the 1977 Quenta Silmarillion is an editorial addition by Christopher Tolkien, even the one where it's said that there was "great love" between Celeborn and Galadriel -- as this was rather said of Galadriel and Melian in JRR Tolkien's version, although his wording there was "much love".



First Battle Celeborn isn't mentioned (not surprisingly), but it seems plausible he would take part in some way. Not everyone at a battle actually fights; but maybe Celeborn did.

Aglareb I see no great reason to think so. Fingolfin and Maedros are noted as destroying the main ork host, and it's not said here (at least) who the "others" were who sought out the scattered bands of orks that had strayed into Beleriand.

Bragollach Well, no force from Doriath is mentioned, and there are Grey-elves here that: "fled south and forsook the northern war; many were received in Doriath, and the kingdom and strength of Thingol grew greater in that time . . ."

Later we are told that Thingol ultimately sent Beleg Strongbow into Brethil.

Beleg

That said, there is a detail from the Grey Annals that was not taken up into Christopher Tolkien's constructed Silmarillion -- that, after the Bragollach, the army that had driven into East Beleriand had been "broken" by Thingol on the borders of Doriath, so that part of the bad guys fled south, and part north, while those that ventured near the mountains were hunted by Dwarves.

Again, not in the 1977 Silmarillion.

Nirnaeth No, not in my opinion.

It's said that no one out of Doriath came to this battle “save Mablung, and Beleg who could not be restrained" [JRRT, Quenta Silmarillion, The Lost Road] or “Mablung of Doriath with a small force of Grey-elves” [Grey Annals, wherein it was said that Mablung was unwilling to have no part in these great deeds] or no aid from Doriath is mentioned, at least [Narn version] compare the constructed Silmarillion, Christopher Tolkien: “nor any out of Doriath save Mablung and Beleg, who were unwilling to have no part in these great deeds.”

If anyone wants to take the Grey Annals version, I still think it's doubtful that Celeborn was in this "small force" (arguably under Mablung's leadership). In any case, the version that Christopher Tolkien published [Mablung and Beleg only] remains unrevised on the later typescript copy of this Silmarillion chapter -- if Tolkien simply never got round to revising it, or was considering keeping it, even as a variant -- again, who can know.

War of Wrath Not in my opinion. This depends upon the history of Celeborn with respect to the First Age.

For myself, I've recently opted to take Tolkien-published text (as opposed to Tolkien-written text), and go with the implication in The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, that Celeborn and Galadriel had departed from Beleriand before the War of Wrath.

Anywho, all just my opinions.

you are right, but there is one thing I wonder about you. Why do you always base on the Quenta Silmarillion written by Tolkien? Yes, Tolkien didn't add the celeborn to the Quenta Silmarillion, but before adding it, he was writing the celeborn's life independently of the silmarillion. As for their views, celeborn may have fought alone, independently of the doriath forces, alongside the gray elves who fought in the dagor bragollach. Also, in the battle of the nirnaeth arnoediad, celeborn certainly took part in the small force under mablung's leadership. namely speaking according to the gray annals version, celeborn joined the nirnaeth arnoediad with the small doriath force under under mablung's leadership. He may have fought in the war of wrath, as well. because in the ring of power tv series, galadriel implies that her husband celeborn fought in the war of wrath and doubts whether he is alive or not. I'm thinking about all this. because if celeborn didn't fight in these wars, why is he always portrayed as a warrior and a soldier with a sword in tolkien and middle earth depictions on the internet? In my opinion, to say that celeborn did not participate in the battles of beleriand is to disregard celeborn's warlike-looking charisma.

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

you are right, but there is one thing I wonder about you. Why do you always base on the Quenta Silmarillion written by Tolkien? Yes, Tolkien didn't add the celeborn to the Quenta Silmarillion, but before adding it, he was writing the celeborn's life independently of the silmarillion. As for their views, celeborn may have fought alone, independently of the doriath forces, alongside the gray elves who fought in the dagor bragollach. Also, in the battle of the nirnaeth arnoediad, celeborn certainly took part in the small force under mablung's leadership. namely speaking according to the gray annals version, celeborn joined the nirnaeth arnoediad with the small doriath force under under mablung's leadership. He may have fought in the war of wrath, as well. because in the ring of power tv series, galadriel implies that her husband celeborn fought in the war of wrath and doubts whether he is alive or not. I'm thinking about all this. because if celeborn didn't fight in these wars, why is he always portrayed as a warrior and a soldier with a sword in tolkien and middle earth depictions on the internet? In my opinion, to say that celeborn did not participate in the battles of beleriand is to disregard celeborn's warlike-looking charisma.

I personally see celeborn more as a diplomat(it's just my opinion tho) as he still had some sort of relationship with the Noldor despite the Kinslayings in menegroth and sirion, while oropher didn't want to have anything to do with them...I know a great part of this is because he married a noldo..but still sty like Kinslaying isn't easily forgotten

 

[Turin_Turambar]

I personally see celeborn more as a diplomat(it's just my opinion tho) as he still had some sort of relationship with the Noldor despite the Kinslayings in menegroth and sirion, while oropher didn't want to have anything to do with them...I know a great part of this is because he married a noldo..but still sty like Kinslaying isn't easily forgotten

If you see celeborn only as a diplomat, I think this is a very interesting view. Because celeborn is portrayed as a very talented Sindar warrior who fights when necessary, whether he is a diplomat or like a diplomat, as you say. In the depictions of middle-earth characters on the internet, as a warrior, I was most impressed by the celeborn's appearance.

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

If you see celeborn only as a diplomat, I think this is a very interesting view. Because celeborn is portrayed as a very talented Sindar warrior who fights when necessary, whether he is a diplomat or like a diplomat, as you say. In the depictions of middle-earth characters on the internet, as a warrior, I was most impressed by the celeborn's appearance.

If is it possible can you post the part that he is mentioned as a great warrior here,I have to say it's been a while since I've read either LOTR or the hobbit and I have yet to read the Silmarillion

 

[Turin_Turambar]

If is it possible can you post the part that he is mentioned as a great warrior here,I have to say it's been a while since I've read either LOTR or the hobbit and I have yet to read the Silmarillion

I'm very surprised that you haven't read the silmarillion. Because your username, so your favorite middle-earth character, aredhel, is a silmarillion character. I guess you, like me, read the wars and stories of the silmarillion from middle-earth encyclopedias like lotr.fandom tolkiengateway. I have all the middle earth books about the first age including the silmarillion. I have only read the silmarillion. I will start reading the others new since I new moved to America. If I answer your question, I think I read in a source on the internet that celeborn is a great warrior. Maybe it's lotr.fandom, I'm not sure.

 

[Elthir]

you are right, but there is one thing I wonder about you.

There are many things I wonder about me, but moving on. . .

Why do you always base on the Quenta Silmarillion written by Tolkien?

'Cause (generally speaking), JRRT is the author of all things Middle-earth. And more specifically, when one asks about the battles of Beleriand (as you often do), Quenta Silmarillion is the natural place to go, or at least to start with.

Yes, Tolkien didn't add the celeborn to the Quenta Silmarillion, but before adding it, he was writing the celeborn's life independently of the silmarillion.

And I'd quote any such non-Quenta Silmarillion texts that reveal Celeborn fighting in any of the battles you raised in this thread, but I can't recall any!

As for their views, celeborn may have fought alone, independently of the doriath forces, alongside the gray elves who fought in the dagor bragollach.

And if by "may" you mean "might have" then, for myself, I don't find this very compelling. Maybe
Celeborn was fishing when Feanor showed up, and he fought the orks alongside the Feanoreans.

Also, in the battle of the nirnaeth arnoediad, celeborn certainly took part in the small force under mablung's leadership.

Ah, but there is no certainty about this. And I'm not surprised that you'd refer to the GA version, since the Quenta Silmarillion version states that only Mablung and Beleg went to this war -- as with the Bragollach, you're relying upon possibility despite no evidence to indeed make it certain.

He may have fought in the war of wrath, as well. because in the ring of power tv series, galadriel implies that her husband celeborn fought in the war of wrath and doubts whether he is alive or not.

The Rings of Power show is basically meaningless to me with respect to discussions of Tolkien's history of Middle-earth. In my opinion, one might as well point to anyone's fan fiction where Celeborn certainly fights in the War of Wrath, and claim that as a source!

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien is the source. English guy. Likes inventing languages. That guy

I'm thinking about all this. because if celeborn didn't fight in these wars, why is he always portrayed as a warrior and a soldier with a sword in tolkien and middle earth depictions on the internet?

Maybe 'cause people like depicting Tolkien's Elves with swords?

Anywho, Tolkien himself did write that Telporno the Telerin Elf of Aman fought heroically in defense of Swanhaven, but not only does this contradict Tolkien-published text, in this iteration Galadriel and Celeborn sailed to Middle-earth, were met with joy, but. . .

" . . . in the years after they [Galadriel and Celeborn] did not join in the war against Angband, which they judged to be hopeless under the ban of the Valar and without their aid; and their counsel was to withdraw from Beleriand . . ."

So in this last Tolkienian version of Celeborn and Galadriel's history, they both did not join in the war against Angband, and both leave Beleriand before the end of the First Age.

Despite that this version is the last one that JRRT ever put to paper, I personally do not accept it.
As I say, I put Tolkien-published text above all (in which Celeborn was Sindarin, not Telerin), but
the point here is -- here we have Tolkien himself "removing" [cough] Celeborn from these battles, which I do not think needs to be interpreted as Celeborn not being a great warrior at need.

In shorter: not fighting in any of these wars (as in this late iteration) doesn't necessarily mean Celeborn isn't a notable, or able warrior -- it means that he did not fight in these wars!

In my opinion, to say that celeborn did not participate in the battles of beleriand is to disregard celeborn's warlike-looking charisma.

I'd say that many, many, many Elves in Tolkien's world could look awesomey in this regard, but that doesn't mean an arguable paragon of martial prowess like Beleg (for one random example) necessarily fought in a given, specific war.

🐾

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

I'm very surprised that you haven't read the silmarillion. Because your username, so your favorite middle-earth character, aredhel, is a silmarillion character. I guess you, like me, read the wars and stories of the silmarillion from middle-earth encyclopedias like lotr.fandom tolkiengateway. I have all the middle earth books about the first age including the silmarillion. I have only read the silmarillion. I will start reading the others new since I new moved to America. If I answer your question, I think I read in a source on the internet that celeborn is a great warrior. Maybe it's lotr.fandom, I'm not sure.

I know the characters, events etc .. haven't had the time to properly read it,and Tolkien gateway is by no means accurate...in fact other wikis aren't either,bcs anyone can change it

 

[Ent]

So Ent summarizes this way:

1. Some hold to "certain texts for certain reasons."
2. Some hold to "the body of texts without regard to 'reasons' and where there are conflicts, choose what seems best to them."
3. Some hold to any texts, regardless of author.
4. Some include the body of theatrical works, including their departures from all texts.

At the end of the day, when there is no common point of agreement with regard to SOURCE of information, there can be no conclusive answer with regard to RESULT of 'research' (term loosely applied).

 

[Turin_Turambar]

There are many things I wonder about me, but moving on. . .



'Cause (generally speaking), JRRT is the author of all things Middle-earth. And more specifically, when one asks about the battles of Beleriand (as you often do), Quenta Silmarillion is the natural place to go, or at least to start with.



And I'd quote any such non-Quenta Silmarillion texts that reveal Celeborn fighting in any of the battles you raised in this thread, but I can't recall any!



And if by "may" you mean "might have" then, for myself, I don't find this very compelling. Maybe
Celeborn was fishing when Feanor showed up, and he fought the orks alongside the Feanoreans.



Ah, but there is no certainty about this. And I'm not surprised that you'd refer to the GA version, since the Quenta Silmarillion version states that only Mablung and Beleg went to this war -- as with the Bragollach, you're relying upon possibility despite no evidence to indeed make it certain.



The Rings of Power show is basically meaningless to me with respect to discussions of Tolkien's history of Middle-earth. In my opinion, one might as well point to anyone's fan fiction where Celeborn certainly fights in the War of Wrath, and claim that as a source!

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien is the source. English guy. Likes inventing languages. That guy



Maybe 'cause people like depicting Tolkien's Elves with swords?

Anywho, Tolkien himself did write that Telporno the Telerin Elf of Aman fought heroically in defense of Swanhaven, but not only does this contradict Tolkien-published text, in this iteration Galadriel and Celeborn sailed to Middle-earth, were met with joy, but. . .

" . . . in the years after they [Galadriel and Celeborn] did not join in the war against Angband, which they judged to be hopeless under the ban of the Valar and without their aid; and their counsel was to withdraw from Beleriand . . ."

So in this last Tolkienian version of Celeborn and Galadriel's history, they both did not join in the war against Angband, and both leave Beleriand before the end of the First Age.

Despite that this version is the last one that JRRT ever put to paper, I personally do not accept it.
As I say, I put Tolkien-published text above all (in which Celeborn was Sindarin, not Telerin), but
the point here is -- here we have Tolkien himself "removing" [cough] Celeborn from these battles, which I do not think needs to be interpreted as Celeborn not being a great warrior at need.

In shorter: not fighting in any of these wars (as in this late iteration) doesn't necessarily mean Celeborn isn't a notable, or able warrior -- it means that he did not fight in these wars!



I'd say that many, many, many Elves in Tolkien's world could look awesomey in this regard, but that doesn't mean an arguable paragon of martial prowess like Beleg (for one random example) necessarily fought in a given, specific war.

🐾

my dear friend, since i signed up to this forum, you have not understood only one of my actions. i am only doing "assumption" and "speculation". So, I'm not saying that Celeborn fought in the nirnaeth arnoediad and dagor bragollach as "he definitely fought" or "he definitely participated in that war". what i'm saying things are just supposing and thinking that in my own opinion his were in that war. Long story short, I want to tell you this. No matter who a character is, celeborn or any other character, just because they are not mentioned in a war does not mean they didn't exist in that war at all. Because Tolkien did not have a habit of listing or detailing the fighting characters in wars. In fact, Tolkien died before he could detail all the middle earth wars and events. and since Tolkien did not say with his own mouth that "celeborn certainly did not fight in the battles of beleriand" I can safely think that celeborn did, and I can trust my opinion. that is all!

 

[Elthir]

my dear friend, since i signed up to this forum, you have not understood only one of my actions. i am only doing "assumption" and "speculation".

What have I written that makes you feel I don't understand this? I think I'm generally aware that you're not saying. . .

So, I'm not saying that Celeborn fought in the nirnaeth arnoediad and dagor bragollach as "he definitely fought" or "he definitely participated in that war".

. . . buy that said, in one place above, you used the word "certainly" [that Celeborn fought in Unnumbered Tears] and you referred to the Grey Annals. So you meant certainly -- as in your opinion then -- but even if so, just in case folks have not read this section of the Grey Annals, or might be confused about all these sources, yes I pointed this out specifically; and will again: it's not certain according to the GA -- it's just Mablung and "some Elves" from Doriath, after all -- even if you believe it to be certain (according to your opinion).

Long story short, I want to tell you this. No matter who a character is, celeborn or any other character, just because they are not mentioned in a war does not mean they didn't exist in that war at all.

In post 4 in this thread I wrote:

"First Battle Celeborn isn't mentioned (not surprisingly), but it seems plausible he would take part in some way. Not everyone at a battle actually fights; but maybe Celeborn did."

and since Tolkien did not say with his own mouth that "celeborn certainly did not fight in the battles of beleriand" I can safely think that celeborn did, and I can trust my opinion. that is all!

Of course you can trust your opinion. But I also assume that you wanted other opinions, based on what Tolkien wrote. So here I am. And was.

But considering what I just posted: I'd say that Tolkien (at least at one point) did write that Celeborn did not take part in the War against Angband, and that he even left Beleriand with Galadriel before the end of the First Age. To me that's as good as a direct statement from the horsey's mouth. It doesn't fit with your opinions, I get that, but nevertheless, Tolkien wrote that with his own hand.

I assume you set this text aside for some reason. Maybe we agree on the reason?

Anyway, I set this version aside -- especially because we don't know if Tolkien had merely forgotten what he had already published when he wrote this late text -- and given that the idea lives within a scenario that contradicts what he'd already published about Galadriel and Celeborn, I hold even Tolkien to what he's published.

Moreover, I can produce a quote from JRRT himself about his failing memory with respect to his age,
or a statement from CJRT about his father's desire (at least late in life) to not inadvertently contradict already published descriptions. I could also illustrate JRRT basically tossing out an idea that he put to paper, 'cause upon realizing what he had already published, he felt he must reject said paper-put idea.

I won't (now). But I could

Anyway. I nap, therefore I am.

 

[Ent]

about his failing memory with respect to his age,

he forgot how old he was? 😁

 

[Elthir]

I've done that!

😂

 

[Ent]

I can safely think that celeborn did, and I can trust my opinion. that is all!

Of course you can trust your opinion. But I also assume that you wanted other opinions

"Trust my opinion" - this is the hallmark of TTF. Being able to retain ones opinion without fear or concern.
"wanted other opinions" - This is the hallmark of TTF. Being able to share other opinions without fear or concern.

Ent's addition:
"seeking to learn" - this is the goal of TTF. To provide an environment where all feel both ready and free to shair their thoughts - appropriately.

This is a terrific conversation. (In the current, most frequently applied meaning of Terrific, not its original meaning.)

 

[Turin_Turambar]

What have I written that makes you feel I don't understand this? I think I'm generally aware that you're not saying. . .



. . . buy that said, in one place above, you used the word "certainly" [that Celeborn fought in Unnumbered Tears] and you referred to the Grey Annals. So you meant certainly -- as in your opinion then -- but even if so, just in case folks have not read this section of the Grey Annals, or might be confused about all these sources, yes I pointed this out specifically; and will again: it's not certain according to the GA -- even if you believe it to be certain (according to your opinion).



Well, I can't recall ever stating otherwise. In fact, in post 4 in this thread I wrote:

"First Battle Celeborn isn't mentioned (not surprisingly), but it seems plausible he would take part in some way. Not everyone at a battle actually fights; but maybe Celeborn did."



Of course you can trust your opinion. But I also assume that you wanted other opinions, based on what Tolkien wrote. So here I am. And was.

But considering what I just posted: Tolkien (at least at one point) did write that Celeborn did not take part in the War against Angband, and that he even left Beleriand with Galadriel before the end of the First Age. To me that's as good as a direct statement from the horsey's mouth. It doesn't fit with your opinions, I get that, but nevertheless, Tolkien did write that with his own hand.

I assume you set this text aside for some reason. Maybe we agree on the reason?

Anyway, I set this version aside -- especially because we don't know if Tolkien had merely forgotten what he had already published when he wrote this late text -- and given that the idea lives within a scenario that contradicts what he'd already published about Galadriel and Celeborn, I hold even Tolkien to what he's published.

Moreover, I can produce a quote from JRRT himself about his failing memory with respect to his age,
or a statement from CJRT about his father's desire (at least late in life) to not inadvertently contradict already published descriptions. I could also illustrate JRRT basically tossing out an idea that he put to paper, but upon realizing what he had already published, he felt he must reject said paper-put idea.

I won't (now). But I could

Anyway. I nap, therefore I am.

yes you are right about everything and i agree with you on some points. and if i said earlier that celeborn fought "absolutely" in any war in battles of beleriand, it was my personal fault I apologize for that. By the way, in the accepted general story of celeborn there is no mention of whether he left the realm of beleriand before the first age. If according to you or any of tolkien's writings, celeborn left in beleriand before the end of the first age and did not participate in the war of wrath, why in the rings of power galadriel indicate celeborn fought in the war of wrath? She even doubted whether the celeborn was alive or not. Why is it like that in rings of power and can we accept rings of power as a resource?

 

[Elthir]

By the way. . .

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien is the source. English guy. Likes inventing languages. That guy

. . . this bold statement was really for our own Tar-Elenion, and only because he might enjoy it!

And by the other way, thank you Sir Ent for things said elsewhere.

By the way, in the accepted general story of celeborn there is no mention of whether he left the realm of beleriand before the first age.

I think I mentioned in our last discussion [about Celeborn and certain Battles of Beleriand], that a member here named Tar-Elenion had convinced me to go with a suggestion published by Tolkien
in The Fellowship of the Ring, no matter its original intent.

See below.

(. . .) why in the rings of power galadriel indicate celeborn fought in the war of wrath? She even doubted whether the celeborn was alive or not.

Generally speaking, Rings of Power has purposely changed Tolkien's story and lore, even in drastic ways, in order to assemble what they think will make a good show.

Given even that much, how can one count on them as an accurate source? This need not mean they get everything wrong, of course, but in any case, I think one has to know the Tolkienian history, and
lore, to know whether or not the show gets something (arguably) "right" or (arguably) "wrong".

Less generally speaking, if any show-folk want to argue that Celeborn was in Beleriand for the War of Wrath, their Tolkien consultant (assuming they have one), or anyone I guess, could pick out a brief statement published by Christopher Tolkien in Unfinished Tales, and possibly use it as part of some sort of argument. Christopher Tolkien noted:

"It is a natural assumption that Celeborn and Galadriel were present at the ruin of Doriath (it is said in one place that Celeborn "escaped the sack of Doriath"), and perhaps aided the escape of Elwing to the Havens of Sirion with the Silmaril -- but this is nowhere stated."

"Escaped the sack of Doriath" would at least keep our silvery Celeborn in Beleriand after the sack of Nargothrond. That noted, we don't know much about this quote. It was never published by Tolkien himself . . . but the following was!

Galadriel speaking, The Fellowship of the Ring: "He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted, for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat.”

According to Christopher Tolkien's commentary in Unfinished Tales, in all probability, when his father wrote this passage, he imagined Celeborn as a Nandorin Elf -- thus the idea was: Galadriel leaves Beleriand before the fall of Nargothrond and eventually joins the Nando Celeborn in Lorien. But by the time Tolkien published The Lord of the Rings, Celeborn had become Sindarin. . .

. . . which still leaves us with Galadriel passing over some mountains before the fall of Nargothrond. And in the 1960s, for whatever reason, Tolkien does not revise this passage for the second edition
of The Lord of the Rings -- but does publish [in 1967, The Road Goes Ever On] that after the fall of Morgoth, Galadriel and Celeborn pass over the Blue Mountains and go to Eregion!

Before I recently switched my opinion, I was trying to sell an interpretation of this passage in order to keep Celeborn and Galadriel in Beleriand until after the overthrow of Morgoth -- as that way, Galadriel doesn't cross the Blue Mountains twice.

But today I still feel that Tar-Elenion's scenario is more elegant, despite that it does have Galadriel passing over the Blue Mountains twice. Plus, it had the slight "advantage" of "agreeing somewhat" [cough] with Tolkien's last known history regarding Celeborn and Galadriel -- in at least this much: that they left Beleriand before the end of the First Age.

I'm not trying to sell you this interpretation, but since I've switched, Celeborn -- no matter his prowess in battle -- must necessarily (again within this scenario), be absent for the Wrathy War.

And anyway, we went over some of this this in your earlier thread, also about Celeborn and some of the Beleriand battles.

thetolkien.forum/threads/did-celeborn-fight-in-dagor-bragollach-nirnaeth-arnoediad-and-war-of-wrath.31073/#post-577620

In the end, once again, perhaps it comes down to Galadriel: I'd think Celeborn would have to be skilled in the art of war, and strong, just to keep up with her!

🐾