Did Fingolfin's host have to cross Helcaraxë?

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

I read the chapter of the flight of the Noldor a while back and I have had this question for quite sometimes now.
Could Fingolfin's host have gone back the way they came from? Back to Tirion?
Was anything there stopping them from doing it?

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

If they went back, that would be choosing not to follow Fëanor, and Fingolfin had made a vow not to be parted from him.

Fingolfin said: 'Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Thou shalt lead and I will follow. May no new grief divide us.'
'I hear thee,' said Fëanor. 'So be it.' But they did not know the meaning that their words would bear.
- J.R.R. Tolkien, Of the Darkening of Valinor

Ironically, Fingolfin keeps his oath... Interesting how many oaths people actually make in the Sil, and the outcomes that go with.

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

But he wasn't forced to do right? He didn't swear Eru's name unlike the oath of Fëanor.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

True, but as in the northern sagas and epics, oaths in Middle-earth have a "physical" force, you could say. We see this again and again in the Silmarillion, and also in LOTR -- look what happened to the men of the White Mountains, when they broke their oath.

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

True, but as in the northern sagas and epics, oaths in Middle-earth have a "physical" force, you could say.

I thought only when you say the name of Eru they get that "physical force" as you said. Is it not true then?

 

[Olorgando]

But he wasn't forced to do right? He didn't swear Eru's name unlike the oath of Fëanor.

As S-eS pointed out, Norse sagas were a major influence on JRRT. And a "point of no return" often figures largely in such things.
This point would have been the Prophecy of the North (in chapter 9 "Of the Flight of the Noldor"), after which Finarfin (and many of his people, but not his sons) did turn back. One additional reason given for Fingolfin and his host keeping on at this point is that "... not all of them had been guiltless of the Kinslaying at Alqualondë". By the time they had come near to the Helcaraxë, they were past the "point of no return".

 

[Olorgando]

I thought only when you say the name of Eru they get that "physical force" as you said. Is it not true then?

Fëanor calling upon Eru in his oath is meant, in my view, to show his utter narcissistic, megalomaniac lunacy at this point. Or as it would be commented on today, that he had "utterly lost it."

 

[Elthir]

"But his sons were not with him, for they would not forsake the sons of Fingolfin; and all Fingolfin's folk went forward still, and they saw many signs and wonders upon the road to
the northerly north."

The Sillymarillion chapter and page number

 

[ZehnWaters]

I read the chapter of the flight of the Noldor a while back and I have had this question for quite sometimes now.
Could Fingolfin's host have gone back the way they came from? Back to Tirion?

Yes.

Was anything there stopping them from doing it?

Pride & guilt.

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Pride.

I definitely don't think it was because of pride. Fingolfin loved his brother and felt obligated to hold up his oath. Words have power, especially in the Elves' mentality. It was a matter of honor & brotherly love in Fingolfin's case. It's actually a good point as to why we should be careful with our words/promises.

 

[ZehnWaters]

As S-eS pointed out, Norse sagas were a major influence on JRRT. And a "point of no return" often figures largely in such things.
This point would have been the Prophecy of the North (in chapter 9 "Of the Flight of the Noldor"), after which Finarfin (and many of his people, but not his sons) did turn back. One additional reason given for Fingolfin and his host keeping on at this point is that "... not all of them had been guiltless of the Kinslaying at Alqualondë". By the time they had come near to the Helcaraxë, they were past the "point of no return".

 

[ZehnWaters]

I definitely don't think it was because of pride. Fingolfin loved his brother and felt obligated to hold up his oath. Words have power, especially in the Elves' mentality. It was a matter of honor & brotherly love in Fingolfin's case. It's actually a good point as to why we should be careful with our words/promises.

"Say only yay, yay or nay, nay."

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

"Say only yay, yay or nay, nay."

That is what I was referring to; how did you know? 🤔

 

[ZehnWaters]

That is what I was referring to; how did you know? 🤔

Great minds think alike.

 

[Olorgando]

I definitely don't think it was because of pride. Fingolfin loved his brother and felt obligated to hold up his oath. Words have power, especially in the Elves' mentality. It was a matter of honor & brotherly love in Fingolfin's case. It's actually a good point as to why we should be careful with our words/promises.

Finarfin chose otherwise ... 🤨

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Finarfin chose otherwise ... 🤨

Finarfin made no vow like Fingolfin did, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Olorgando]

Finarfin made no vow like Fingolfin did, as far as I'm aware.

The only ones to take the lunatic vow were Fëanor and his sevens sons, no one else.

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

The only ones to take the lunatic vow were Fëanor and his sevens sons, no one else.

That vow, yes. Fingolfin made a different one, as I quoted above. I shall recopy it here:

Fingolfin said: 'Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Thou shalt lead and I will follow. May no new grief divide us.'
'I hear thee,' said Fëanor. 'So be it.' But they did not know the meaning that their words would bear.
- J.R.R. Tolkien, Of the Darkening of Valinor

 

[Olorgando]

That vow, yes. Fingolfin made a different one, as I quoted above. I shall recopy it here:

Yes. Semi-lunatic, in my view.

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Well, they didn't know what was to come of it, as the passage declares. In hindsight, of course all of us go "uh oh". But in the moment... who can say?