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Why was 🧝Elrond the glummest character in Lord of the Rings?

zooeyhall

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He seems to be the most cynical and having the darkest outlook.

For example: At the Council of Elrond, when discussing the threat of Sauron and the fate of the Ring, it would have been great to have him channel Winston Churchill: "We will fight them on the beaches....."

Instead, he glumly declares: I have seen three ages in the West of the world, and many defeats, and many fruitless victories".

Hardly inspiring words.

In "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen", when he learns that Aragorn has set his sights on Arwen, and is about to go out in the World on his own.

Is Elrond pleased that his daughter is the potential wife of a high ranking Dunedain, the heir of Elendil and Isildur?

Instead he tells Aragorn: "The days darken, and much evil is to come".

Not very encouraging advice to a young man about to go out into the world for the first time!

Thoughts? Opinions?
 
Just goes to show why you shouldn't ask an elf for advice 😆

But like Erestor said I don't necessarily think it's cynical per se, it's just that the reality of the council's situation is so dire.
I can empathize with him being halfway through the Silmarillion.
If anything I'd say Denethor II is the glummest? character which is quite a feat looking at his short lifespan.
 
Interesting question.

From my own thoughts, I would say that Elrond, and honestly almost all of the Elves had a certain sadness, a certain dryness that could theoretically be considered cynical. That most likely came from a few things.

Firstly, the Elves in Middle-Earth were not in their homeland. They were first in Valinor, and dreamed of the far-off country they would hopefully one day enjoy. Knowing that the life that they were living was merely a journey, and that in it they could never find true contentment and everlasting fulfillment, their outlooks may have had a dimmer and less joyful feel.

Not to mention, Elves were very much grievers. We can see that just by the number of laments that they have alone. They clearly felt a deep need to grieve and weep for the fate of the world, and to honor Middle-Earth and the lands beyond, by their tears. Elves were spiritual, in more ways than one, and so grieving, mourning for the fall to darkness, seems very in character for them.

Secondly, they, especially Elrond, had seen many ages of the world. They saw battles won, wars, the rise and fall of kingdoms. They saw the corruption of power, and watched good leaders of men turn their backs on the goodness in the world and become obsessed with power and wealth. Elrond saw Isildur fall to the fate of the Ring, and so the Ring's power would have held a very personal darkness for him.

I think Elrond was just being frank and realistic, as well as warning them not to get too attached to victories and power. In your first quote, Elrond is almost saying that he has seen defeats and victories, and both can be just as fruitless. In my opinion, that's a valid point, especially because men can become thrilled with conquest and ruling, and completely forget that none of those things are the point of life. Elrond had also lost his parents at a young age, and that no doubt colored the way that he viewed the world. Especially being raised by Maglor, a very flawed individual, and flawed mainly for the reason of his father, and wanting power. Elrond would see just how many times power led to victories but defeated the good of the soul.

As for the second portion of your question (Quote 2):

I honestly don't think that this is cynical at all. The story of Beren and Luthien is a beautiful one, and no doubt the first one that would come to mind when Elrond realized his daughter's heart was set on Aragorn and his on her. But even in all its beauty, it is a terribly tragic story. While Luthien's lamenting and Mandos' pity are touching, the ending still comes with death. The immortality of the Elves was not Beren and Luthien's fate, and they tasted bitter mortality before the end.

Elrond, being a good father, would not have wanted this for his daughter. He would have wanted Arwen to wed an Elf and go on living immortally. He, himself was Half-Elven, and that also might have played a role in his desire for Arwen not to marry Aragorn. His being half-elven, no doubt set up challenges for him, one of which being that his brother, choosing mortality, died. By the point of the Fellowship of the Ring, his brother was dead. And he would have known that his brother could have lived, had he chosen the fate of the Elves.

That brings me to my final point, Elrond's own motives may also have been involved in this desire of his, and in his saying of this quote.
Elrond had seen many of the people who he loved taken from him throughout his life. His father and mother being the first, and then later Maglor who fostered them, and later farther, his brother Elros, and eventually his wife Celebrian. Each one of those would have likely been very painful for him, and he may have wanted no more death for their family. His daughter, Arwen was the only one still actively living beside him as mentioned, and also seems very close to him in the books, so he may have just not wanted to lose her.

Again, these are just my thoughts.
 
it would have been great to have him channel Winston Churchill: "We will fight them on the beaches....."

I'm not sure if it rises to the level of a Churchillian pep talk (maybe it does?), but here's a line of Elrond's that's not so gloomy:

"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great."
 
The Silmarillion is a tragedy from beginning to end. Elrond lived through it. And, as Galadriel says, the world will be poorer even if the quest succeeds. It did and it is. Anyone who takes the long view must see that things are going downhill. I think that Tolkien aborted his sequel because anything close to realistic fiction would be too depressing for him. And Elrond, being wise, saw all this.
 
Lots of good thoughts on this one... I'll share these, sorry if they've been mentioned, but I don't think I saw them in my scan.

1. Elves came to look on living forever as a curse. Elrond is at least half-elven. The death of men is said to be a 'blessing.'
2. Elves are passing, declining, by the time Elrond speaks some of the things above. This must contribute to his perspective.
3. Elrond is half human... 'nuff said.
4. Elves ain't perfect. Look at their history. And Elrond has seen 'a lot' through his history, as noted above. With the current prospects (also as noted above) it has to be wearing on him.
5. Elrond didn't hear Eru's promises first-hand, though whether this would have mattered or nit is questionable. Certainly it didn't matter to Melkor, Sauron, Saruman, and countless other Maiar. But it does mean Elrond needed to live on what Tolkien's text pretty much leaves to 'second hand evidence'.

But I tend to agree with the comments going in the direction of his being quite 'serious minded' rather than 'gloomy'. In everything he did, he fully participated, holding nothing back in terms of his wisdom, counsel, etc. And I never see him saying 'it'll be totally worthless, but go ahead hobbit... meet your doom in this pathetic quest to do the only thing possible."

In fact, he says "if I understand all I've heard correctly, I believe you've been APPOINTED to this task." (or words very close to that.)
"APPOINTED" is a hugely key word... the syntax leaves no doubt he sees external influence in all that's happened and happening.

Like Gandalfd, who rarely smiles, and when he does it's made note of, Elrond is just very, very dedicated to the charge he has been given and role and responsibility he holds.

It would be hard to see either Gandalf or Galadriel or even Aragorn as much less 'gloomy' than Elrond. Frodo, too, comes to realize the weight of the responsibility he bears to all Middle-earth. I don't think he ever returns to drunkenness and revelry after the Prancing Pony affair.

Funny thing, responsibility.
 
This also strikes me as a mixture if Norse and Christian. The Norse heroes fight in evpen though they know they will lose because it is the right thing to do. Sam and Frodo feel a lot of this, as does treebeard. I would nominate Treebeard as the glummist character.
 
This also strikes me as a mixture if Norse and Christian. The Norse heroes fight in evpen though they know they will lose because it is the right thing to do. Sam and Frodo feel a lot of this, as does treebeard. I would nominate Treebeard as the glummist character.
Both ELrond and Treebeard evince gravitas; ELrond a little more so.
Both are somber (please, not glum).. I think Treebeard a bit more somber than ELrond.
 
Both ELrond and Treebeard evince gravitas; ELrond a little more so.
Both are somber (please, not glum).. I think Treebeard a bit more somber than ELrond.
@Ent (and anyone else) ...To elaborate a bit on my opinion....
Glumness is an ephemeral condition, more akin to a feeling. Feelings are transitory, typically a response to a temporary situation.
Gravitas is a character trait.
Being somber could be the result of a temporary happening but it can also be a character trait , the result of ongoing experience with loss.
 
Yes, in doing a little quick study, I detected a difference.
Personally, I'm still not thoroughly happy with 'somber', as it dues turn its bent toward 'depressed, dark, glum (gloomy) or dull." (depending on the sources of definition.)
Somber does tend strongly toward 'sadness' too, which Elrond would feel for all that was lost, was being lost, and was about to be lost for the Elves who loved Middle-earth... and of course Treebeard would feel for several reasons he expressed including the waning of the Ents, and probably most particularly regarding loss of the Entwives.

I briefly pondered "solemn," which one source indicates 'goes deeper than somber'... but I'm not convinced on solemn I fear.

In any event, I see them not so much 'saddened' as 'burdened'. But I"m not happy there either.

I'm very somber over the issue.
 
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I think we have no word for this. I am very sad that our society is full of violence and addiction, among other things. But that does not mean that I am not a happy person. I am thrilled to be alive and to be talking to such wise and amiable persons as the present company!
 
I like this one, a nice easy one to start with... even if I'm a bit out of date. I'm new to the Forum so please bare with me.. Elrond is glum because -
Elrond is "half elven" - in fact if you're doing "blood lines" there's an aweful lot of man in him, for an Elven lord - Beren and Luthien as his Grand parents?
... I think his great great grandfather was the guy who took off on the boat and managed to cross the sea to Valinor and persuade the Gods to come and help over throw Morgoth, and was rewarded by being turned into the evening star, at the end of the First Age... Earendil?
Elrond's choice to belong to Eldar and not men, not even Valinorians... puts him apart. He is neither man nor elf. His brother was the founder of the Valinorians.. He seems to have been a scholar and a diplomat rather than a fighter.. has survived ages, milenia.. knew the old world of Gilgalad, and the beginnings of Numenor, probably hobnobbed with Legends... but had to see both his relatives lines die and diminish, his wife leave and go West and his daughter want to marry a ranger.... he has a ring, and power and has had time to see the outcomes.. He has seen a thousand years of let down, betrayals and failure... and the best outcome is great for almost everyone else in the story but not for him... I think he has a right to be a bit glum, or even dour...
 
He is also wise enough to see that the best outcome is extremely unlikely. Sam just decides not to think about it.
 

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