Where does Frodo go at the end of LOTR?

[Manwe]

Where does Frodo go at the end of LOTR?

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

I believe he sets sail for Valinor, considering that he was a Ringbearer.

Gandalf says, in the book:
​

“Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil.”​

(emphasis mine)

That seems to imply that Frodo sailed to Valinor along with a few others that could make it to the Undying Lands.​

 

[d4rk3lf]

He set sail for the Valinor, then on the very entrance of the Valinor, he realize he forgot his pipe and weed, and jumps overboard into the water, and he swims back to M.E. end encounter a drift with Sauron on it...

... or I might mixed it with something...

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Frodo certainly does sail to Valinor.

Appendix B "The Tale of Years" of ROTK says:

"They come to the Grey Havens. Frodo and Bilbo depart over Sea with the Three Keepers. The end of the Third Age."

 

[Olorgando]

Frodo certainly does sail to Valinor.

Appendix B "The Tale of Years" of ROTK says:

Slow down. The Elven ship with Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, Bilbo and Frodo does take the "Straight Road" to the "True West", but the description of arrival seems to point more to Tol Eressëa. Bilbo and Frodo might have paid a short visit to Valinor, but living there for the rest of their lives seems unlikely. Even of the Elves, only the (most?) Vanyar did that.

 

[Tar-Elenion]

That seems to be what is indicated here:
"We learn that the Exiled Elves were, if not commanded, at least sternly counselled to return into the West, and there be at peace. They were not to dwell permanently in Valinor again, but in the Lonely Isle of Eresseëa within sight of the Blessed Realm."
Letter 131
And implied:
"But the promise made to the Eldar (the High Elves – not to other varieties, they had long before made their irrevocable choice, preferring Middle-earth to paradise) for their sufferings in the struggle with the prime Dark Lord had still to be fulfilled: that they should always be able to leave Middle-earth, if they wished, and pass over Sea to the True West, by the Straight Road, and so come to Eressëa...
...and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel."
Letter 154

There is:
"The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman – the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar – set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands."
Letter 325

 

[Elthir]

"They [The Exiles] were not to dwell permanently in Valinor again, but in the Lonely Isle of Eressea within sight of the Blessed Realm." letter 131, 1951

This appears to be a change, based on what still existed in the actual Quenta Silmarillion, section 27 (HME V): "And when they came into the West the Gnomes for the most part rehabited the Lonely Isle that looks both West and East; and that land became very fair, and so remains. But some returned even to Valinor, as all were free to do who willed; and there the Gnomes were admitted again to the love of Manwe and the pardon of the Valar; and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest."

And looking at the alterations to this text (the end of QS) in the later 1950s, Tolkien made no changes to section 27 -- although as I often point out here, Christopher Tolkien himself warns readers not to take the "unchanged" descriptions here as necessarily an approval of content.

[Christoper Tolkien's constructed Silmarillion is interesting here: "And when they came into the West the Elves of Beleriand dwelt upon Tol Eresea, the Lonely Isle, that looks both west and east; whence they might come even to Valinor. They were admitted again to the love of Manwe and the pardon of the Valar; and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest."]

So it seems JRRT had introduced a "ban" of some measure, for the Exiles; and I'd say this is echoed in the tale of The Elessar in Unfinished Tales, where Galadriel says: "But my heart is still proud. What wrong did the golden house of Finarfin do that I should ask the pardon of the Valar, or be content with an isle in the sea whose native land was Aman the Blessed. Here I am mightier still."

In letter 154 (1954, posted by Tar-Elenion above), Eressea is implied, I agree. And the term "Eldar", I would think, includes the Sindar (as was soon published in The Lord of the Rings), and if so: would they not be allowed to sail beyond Tol Eressea, if desired?

[skirting round the issue of Tolkien's use of "High Elves" in this letter]

And then there's Tolkien's use of Elvenhome (same letter): ". . . so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo. . ." And in the same year (letter 144, 1954, thus "ten letters earlier", sorry, heheh) Tolkien notes that Galadriel "awoke" in Eldamar beyond the Sea. Eldamar meaning Elvenhome!

As far as the late letter goes (325, 1971, again already posted by Tar-Elenion): to my mind it seems to equate Aman with both Valinor and Eressea -- yet then JRRT adds "an island assigned to the Eldar" -- okay but what does this mean exactly. . . again the Eldar should include the Sindar, and at this point even some of the East Elves appear to be allowed to pass over sea, given the late legend of Amroth and Nimrodel.

[very technically Eldar "should" also include the Vanyar, the Teleri of Aman, and the Noldor of Aman (The Finarfinians for example), but of course the context here is really about passing over Oversea, so arguably Tolkien means "the Eldar left in Middle-earth" who were permitted to leave (seek "Aman").]

Granted Tolkien does begin with "immortals", and perhaps he's simply allowing for 1) the Exiles to Tol Eressea, and 2) the Sindar to wherever they want to go. In short, perhaps I'm trying to force Tolkien to be too precise where he need not be.

One of my problems (so far) with this seeming "partial ban" is that it states that the Exiles were not to dwell permanently in Valinor. Okay, but that seemingly means that they could dwell in Valinor "for a time" -- and we are talking about Elves here -- very, very (very) long lived beings! How long can a given Elf "visit" the continent, so to speak. . . part of that continent being Elvenhome!

I guess the prohibition is still there in any case, as a reminder of the Rebellion, and so, that much can be the purpose of it. Anyway, it would also appear that Elves who die and pass through Mandos can return to Eldamar, given Finrod walking with Finarfin, for example.

Or is this just visiting!

More Galadriel Of Course

In a letter of 1967 (the following idea is in accord with the history published by JRRT in RGEO): "The Exiles were allowed to return -- save for a few chief actors in the Rebellion. . ."

Return where? In this letter Tolkien writes that Galadriel made a wish or payer that Frodo be granted a ship to Tol-Eressea, though for her the way is closed. Tol-Eressea again, yet technically it doesn't say where Nerwen would be allowed to go, even after her personal ban was lifted.

In The Shibboleth of Feanor (1968 or later) we have the pardon of the Valar at the end of the Elder Days (if I recall correctly the passage is silent on whether or not a prohibition against Valinor or Eldamar was in place for the Noldorin Exiles), but we seem to have the Valar not only pardoning Galadriel, but "honouring" her: "Her Lament -- spoken before she knew of the pardon (and indeed honour) that the Valar gave her -- harks back to. . ." JRRT, Shibboleth of Feanor

Was the pardoned, honoured Galadriel restricted (in measure) to Tol Eressea upon her return? I guess if she could still visit "the continent" she'd be content enough, and I guess her kin could visit her. And yet again (late text, Of Dwarves And Men, author's note 15):
"(In the event it proved that it was Galadriel's abnegation of pride and trust in her own powers, and her absolute refusal of any unlawful enhancement of them, that provided the ship to bear her back home.)"

Should we "push" Tolkien on the word home here, considering that it was Galadriel herself, albeit back in external time to the Elessar text, who made the distinction between Tol Eressea and her native land of Aman the Blessed.

Or should we not (push), as Tolkien can hardly be expected to remember every nuance of his intricate world every time he chooses a single word that gets the general idea across.

In my ageing memory I recall going way back to The Book of Lost Tales trying to collect stuff concerning where the Exiles could have ended up, but I can't recall where I posted it, if I ever did (if I thought I'd "finished" too), and anyway, I'm not sure earlier ideas would hold much weight, given their earliness.

And if I push Tolkien that Galadriel was allowed "home", does even that necessarily mean that the rest of the Exiles, living or reincarnated, were allowed past Tol Eressea?

My conclusion today: I need some sea-pizza and a nap.

Or something.

 

[Elthir]

Where does Frodo go at the end of LOTR?

To the Grey Havens

my new answer

 

[Olorgando]

To the Grey Havens

my new answer

Yeeeeeeeeees ... but for a very short time (there are no surviving records of his having rented a hotel room), leaving the Grey Havens almost immediately on an Elven ship.

 

[Elthir]

I heard that Frodo booked the Hilton (just in case) -- a wooden structure built on Havenhill -- but in the year 1428 (Shire Reckoning) the green slopes of Havenhill were overrun by Sindarin badgers, and the hotel's reasonably priced rooms, along with all its relevant written records, rotted into history.

 

[Elthir]

Anyway, it would also appear that Elves who die and pass through Mandos can return to Eldamar, given Finrod walking with Finarfin, for example.

Or is this just visiting!

Not only Eldamar, but to Valinor as well, at least according to the late text Glorfindel I, and at least concerning Elves in general: "When they were re-embodied they could remain in Valinor, or return to Middle-earth if their home had been there."

Tolkien does not seem to further distinguish a Noldorin "partial ban" on Valinor here, but merely notes that after his purging in Mandos, Glorfindel remained in Valinor: " -- for Gondolin was destroyed and all or most of his kin had perished."

But then again, silence: is Tolkien merely being silent about a partial ban? Did he forget about it for this late text? Did I really need to triple post here? And we read that after his purging, Glorfindel returned to the "primitive innocence of the Firstborn".

In Glorfindel II, Tolkien goes a bit deeper, stating that Glorfindel and the Exiles "were all under the ban imposed by him [Manwe], they could not return in bodily form to the Blessed Realm."

Here Tolkien goes into why Manwe made an exception for Glorfindel (his nobleness and so on), and again reports that after he was purged and restored, he was permitted to dwell in the Blessed Realm "for he had regained the primitive innocence and grace of the Eldar". And again again, it's noted that Glorfindel remained in the Blessed Realm "no doubt" at first by choice: "Gondolin was destroyed. and all his kin had perished and were still in the Halls of Waiting unapproachable by the living."

Keeping in mind that Glorfindel was slain before the end of the First Age, thus before the general Ban was lifted (except for a few chief actors in the Rebellion, RGEO). In any case, was Glorfindel, restored to this notable innocence, not permitted to dwell "permanently" in Valinor?


And all this is just to say. . .

. . . Frodo went to the Grey Havens. He didn't stay there long. . . but he went there

 

[d4rk3lf]

Yeeeeeeeeees ... but for a very short time (there are no surviving records of his having rented a hotel room)

I've heard that it's not that Cirdan didn't wanted to rent him hotel room, but he was overcrowded with Ent-wifes, because they've lost their way to home many years a go.
Frodo couldn't tell him about Ent search, because Marry and Pipin never mentioned him that part of the story.
So there he was laying on the freezing sand shores, thinking: "What's this all about?"