Discussion Ill Chances and Strange Fates Discussion

[Ent]

yes, i finally got caught up on the scan of @Kiredor's too... will be digging into that more deeply as well.

Difficult it is for me to doff the 'editor' bowler and don the 'reader/consumer' fedora alone.... another reason for printing them out.
(It's a bit like a plague - it takes precautionary measures to avoid.)

I suspect I'll print them with a rather wide right margin so I can jot notes to myself along the way as I read... thoughts striking me along the way,. Be easier to come back to you with more meaningful fedora-style thoughts about the story.

(I'm editing another short work again, so back in that groove..! Argh.)

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

Oh and @Ent , don't print Chapter 3 until I fix a couple of typos, lol! Will probably do that tonight.

 

[Ent]

LOL. The Typos won't bug me. (Have you seen mine? My twigs are always punching the wrong stuff..!)
And my scan didn't reveal a ton of "unpardonable 'thats'" so you're safe there, too, I think..!! 🤣
But I promise, I won't take an 'editorial' look at it... just a 'story' view.
(Unless you want an 'editorial' view here and there. Then the leaves will come off, and the twigs will set to work. )

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

Yeah, just a story view would be good, since for me, this is more of a therapeutic personal project, and besides, I already have these 3 chapters up here and on AO3. The serious editing, let's reserve for my fantasy novel! (Which now that you're more active again, I might PM you sometime soon to discuss some of the suggestions my author friend made, and whether you agree with them. I need to send you Chapter 1 one of these days too).

Though, if you do have any constructive suggestions that would be relatively easy for me to implement, please feel free to send them to me over PM. I always value your feedback, and you have a way of putting it kindly and helpfully. But don't feel like you have to take a detailed analysis into every word.

And my scan didn't reveal a ton of "unpardonable 'thats'" so you're safe there, too, I think..!! 🤣

Hehe, I'm sure I have some unnecessary that's, but hopefully there are no completely useless ones, and the ones present should only be of the subordinate conjunction variety. But you've trained me to always be thinking about it!

 

[Ent]

The serious editing, let's reserve for my fantasy novel!

I stand ready.

if you do have any constructive suggestions that would be relatively easy for me to implement, please feel free to send them to me over PM

I might send a couple. Just a couple spots struck me like "Oh, this is nice. it might flow better and be just a little more poweerful if phrased like this.". (Just slight syntax adjustments.) Totally a matter of choice.

The examples are good for a 'broader application' when thinking about other similar instances... so maybe worthwhile to send for thought and consideration.

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

Just posted Chapter 4, which is the conclusion of the first arc, or sub-story, in IC&SF. Looking forward to your comments!

 

[WatcherWraith]

Oh, Maitimo...so suddenly struck away from his first real friendship. I wonder if this "vision" Fëanor is so interested in will manifest as the Silmarils. And how much more jealous of his time and family and treasures will he become once they are made?

Maitimo's word choices remind me very much of a friend of mine, especially when he's speaking to Aranya. I couldn't help sometimes hearing my friend's tone when Maitimo was talking; it made me feel a bit more fond of Maitimo than I was expecting. The elf has a lot riding on him every single day. I wonder what his father expects of him and what he sees in his eldest son.

I found Curvo, Moryo and Tyelko's demands very interesting, and very peculiar to themselves. Tyelko, not yet mature enough to even fully realize the seriousness of Maitimo's secret, asks for desserts or his heart's dream, pursuing only his own fulfillment in the moment.
Moryo, a little more experienced, understand money can buy him a lot, especially if he stretches it out, and so asks for something with multiple applications. His mind is already looking beyond just this conversation.
Curvo, meanwhile, has long ago saw beyond this conversation and looks into what he can truly use. Maitimo's secret seems to matter little to him compared with what he can get from it. What information Fëanor wanted his eldest to write essays about may give Curvo an edge against or above his brothers in the long run, or a means of getting closer to or understanding his father better. Curvo is much like Fëanor, more so than his siblings, and I imagine he wants to understand his father very much. He wants to learn and grow and be like his father. Hence his complaint to Laurë and Maitimo about their assumptions regarding Fëanor's starting the argument with their uncle.

I wonder what will happen when Aranya finds that note. I think she'll believe Maitmo was telling the truth. But how will they be able to meet again when Maitmo will be so far away now? And with Nerdanel and the twins absent from them, how will Fëanor take a larger role in his children's lives? Has he decided the time has come to teach them something? Only the next chapter and beyond shall tell us.

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

“Yay! Cuddle with Timo!” the twins cheered. They promptly burrowed themselves under the blankets next to Maitimo, and remained surprisingly still and quiet, save for the occasional giggle.
[...]
Besides, the little twins snuggling up on either side of him filled his heart with warmth. It wasn’t long before he fell back asleep.

Too cute, lol.

Unfortunately, he was a little late getting to the spot. Aranya sat by the pond, eating her meal, looking thoughtful yet vaguely disappointed as she gazed into the distance. Some of the petals from the wisteria tree fell into her hair, and her reflection in the glassy pond rippled gently under the slight breeze.

I liked the image this description created in my mind. It seemed like something you'd see in a movie.

And as he blankly watched the soothing, repetitive motion of the rippling pond, he realized he was already counting down the hours until he could see Aranya again.

I understand this feeling myself. Though I couldn't name any specific instance where I've felt it.
I like this: it underlines what Maitimo feels about Aranya, and helps explain the strength of their connection when they have not spent that much time in each other's company yet.

The conversation between the two of them here is very striking. It stands out to me.
At first reading, it was in the sense of surprise or confusion. Things are moving very fast between them, and they both appear to have strong feelings of some sort towards each other already.
But subsequently, it grew on me. They find in each other a sort of 'island' of peace away from the monotony and struggles of their daily lives. A shared understanding. Some shared interests. The pressure to perform is removed, and they are able to share more of their unfiltered thoughts.
It shows them both that things can be different, and it brings a sense of joy and hope. And it is no wonder they are looking forward to seeing each other again.

“Oh, I will,” Maitimo said, relieved that this was resolved with such apparent ease. Still, he’d have to be extra watchful for any signs of sneaky little brothers next time.

Curvo: We have caught you.
Maitimo: 😳🤦‍♂️
Curvo: I want to read your essays.
Maitimo: ????????

And resist he would, slowly and quietly, until the day came where he could create a life of his own.

Me: *looks at the events of the Silmarillion*
Me: Are you sure about that? 🙁

 

[Ent]

Wow. So many colorful, well constructed descriptive moments in this, as noted by some of the selections posted above.

If I may say so, your wiiting is certainly maturing. The chapter is also done almost completely sans "that' - a pleasure to read for the Ent..!
(And where "that" is incorporated, it does not jar. One is "proper,", having a right if slightly obscure, precedent target, one is 'improper' yet is the simplest way to say what's said, and one is in conversation, where we all know "thats" encroachment is nearly pandemic. Most satisfactory. There may be more, but I did not notice them.)

After reading, I retain my question still: "where are you taking me with all this?" A very good thing indeed.

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

Oh, Maitimo...so suddenly struck away from his first real friendship.

Yeah, the arc ends on a bit of a sad note for sure!

I wonder if this "vision" Fëanor is so interested in will manifest as the Silmarils. And how much more jealous of his time and family and treasures will he become once they are made?

Hehehhh, that will be something! 😬

Maitimo's word choices remind me very much of a friend of mine, especially when he's speaking to Aranya. I couldn't help sometimes hearing my friend's tone when Maitimo was talking; it made me feel a bit more fond of Maitimo than I was expecting. The elf has a lot riding on him every single day. I wonder what his father expects of him and what he sees in his eldest son.

Oh really? That's so cool! I do put a decent dosage of myself into him, though he's way more outwardly giving and focused on the needs of others than I am. I live in my head a lot more than he does. But any time you see Maitimo anxious about a social interaction or wondering what people think of him, just know, that's me. 🙃 I'm not sure what in particular reminds you of your friend, but maybe I share some similarities with that person?

I found Curvo, Moryo and Tyelko's demands very interesting, and very peculiar to themselves. Tyelko, not yet mature enough to even fully realize the seriousness of Maitimo's secret, asks for desserts or his heart's dream, pursuing only his own fulfillment in the moment.
Moryo, a little more experienced, understand money can buy him a lot, especially if he stretches it out, and so asks for something with multiple applications. His mind is already looking beyond just this conversation.
Curvo, meanwhile, has long ago saw beyond this conversation and looks into what he can truly use. Maitimo's secret seems to matter little to him compared with what he can get from it. What information Fëanor wanted his eldest to write essays about may give Curvo an edge against or above his brothers in the long run, or a means of getting closer to or understanding his father better. Curvo is much like Fëanor, more so than his siblings, and I imagine he wants to understand his father very much. He wants to learn and grow and be like his father. Hence his complaint to Laurë and Maitimo about their assumptions regarding Fëanor's starting the argument with their uncle.

It's kind of funny how this maturity of thinking is sort of in reverse order of their ages! And as for Curvo's request, I have @Server Room Gremlin to thank for suggesting I consider something other than my original idea. I like this way better. I realized it would make a lot of sense for little Atarinkë to (a) want to hoard information for his own amusement and (b) want to understand the mind of Fëanor better.

I wonder what will happen when Aranya finds that note. I think she'll believe Maitmo was telling the truth. But how will they be able to meet again when Maitmo will be so far away now? And with Nerdanel and the twins absent from them, how will Fëanor take a larger role in his children's lives? Has he decided the time has come to teach them something? Only the next chapter and beyond shall tell us.

Things will be revealed in due time in the Interlude and Arc 2, though you may have to be patient, as not all of it gets revealed right away.

I liked the image this description created in my mind. It seemed like something you'd see in a movie.

Thanks, I struggle with including sensory descriptions. I would live entirely in the characters' heads if I let myself. so I'm glad this one helped make the mental picture clear to you.

I understand this feeling myself. Though I couldn't name any specific instance where I've felt it.

By "this feeling," are you referring to the sense of basically killing time while you wait for something you've been looking forward to?

The conversation between the two of them here is very striking. It stands out to me.
At first reading, it was in the sense of surprise or confusion. Things are moving very fast between them, and they both appear to have strong feelings of some sort towards each other already.
But subsequently, it grew on me. They find in each other a sort of 'island' of peace away from the monotony and struggles of their daily lives. A shared understanding. Some shared interests. The pressure to perform is removed, and they are able to share more of their unfiltered thoughts.
It shows them both that things can be different, and it brings a sense of joy and hope. And it is no wonder they are looking forward to seeing each other again.

Yes, exactly! That's ultimately what kicked off their connection and bond. Yes, there is some surface-level attraction (any romantic relationship has to have it) but the real basis of their affection for each other relates to feeling seen and understood by each other, and feeling like the other person is a breath of fresh air relative to their normal lives.

Curvo: We have caught you.
Maitimo: 😳🤦‍♂️
Curvo: I want to read your essays.
Maitimo: ????????

Maitimo: That boring stuff? Okay!

Curvo: *offended* IT'S NOT BORING!

Yeah, that's Maitimo and Curvo, I guess. Maitimo undervaluing his own work, and Curvo revering it because it's linked to Fëanor.

Me: *looks at the events of the Silmarillion*
Me: Are you sure about that? 🙁

R u sure?? R U SURE???!!

If I may say so, your wiiting is certainly maturing. The chapter is also done almost completely sans "that' - a pleasure to read for the Ent..!

To quote Anakin from Star Wars, "It's only because of your training!"

I'm glad it was an enjoyable lack of "that's" for you, especially because this morning before I posted it, I searched the chapter for any instances of "that," and I was pleased to see there were no Completely Useless That's, and only a few debatable ones of the subordinate conjunction variety. One of them, I actually deleted the entire sentence and wrote a different one, and it was definitely a cleaner sentence. So I guess I'm starting to understand what you mean about "that" pointing to larger structural issues. Also, I'm glad you make exceptions for dialogue. I always have felt it's more important for dialogue to sound authentic and natural rather than grammatically perfect.

Thank you all for your comments; they really encouraged me today!

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

By "this feeling," are you referring to the sense of basically killing time while you wait for something you've been looking forward to?

Yeah, sort of. 'Counting down the hours'. Like there's something which is a bright spot in my life and I'm looking forward to the next time it will happen, thinking about it every day, since it's captured my attention above everything else.

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

Hey all! I know it's been a long time since the last update, but I have been working consistently on the story since then. It's just that I couldn't publish anything more till now. I wanted to wait for Arc 2 to be finished before I started posting any of it, and Arc 2 turned out much longer than I expected, consisting of 10 chapters and 50,000 words. It's finally done now, and so I have just posted the Interlude, which covers the time skip into Arc 2.

For those of you who enjoy this story, you'll be pleased to know that, since Arc 2 was over 50,000 words and 10 chapters, you will therefore get an entire novel's worth of content released over the next 10ish weeks.

(In fact, I'm considering dividing some of the longer chapters, since a few of them are over 6,000 words. So maybe there will be 11 or 12 chapters released, and that means 11 or 12ish weeks of regular chapter updates.)

Another housekeeping note: I have implemented a Table of Contents system, inspired by what @Server Room Gremlin did for The Works of Curufinwë. I figured this would be helpful for IC&SF, since it will be a very lengthy work with a complex structure of story arcs and interludes. The table of contents is in a spoiler in the Prologue post, and each chapter has a link taking you back to it.

I love hearing from readers, so please let me know what you think of the Interlude, and what Maitimo and Aranya have been up to since we last saw them!

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

“Yes, I know. If it weren’t for them, you’d be riding home today along with the rest of your brothers, after having spent many weeks there, and I wouldn’t have seen you today, or hardly at all… And I know how you hate Formenos, as much as you miss your brothers.”

We miss you too. Life's just not the same without our soft and warm biggest bro. >_>
(For context: Curufin likes warm and soft/fluffy things, and when he was little, Maedhros felt like this to him, with the red of his hair adding to the impression of warmth. It was a good first impression, I guess.)

She told him his face was too easy to read, and he bared his heart for everyone to see.

Curvo: And she is right. ;3

Looking into Aranya’s deep brown eyes as she chatted about her day in the healing halls, Maitimo wondered if she had any idea of these thoughts. If she knew he was thinking of her that way. If she thought in such a way about him. But while his situation was so uncertain, he couldn’t afford to get her hopes up.

I particularly liked this part, and the sort of melancholy tone of it. It's also a wonderful thing when you start wondering what another person thinks about certain things. It speaks to how much they mean to you.

 

[WatcherWraith]

Maitimo is growing up! I am proud of our red-headed young councillor, rising in strength of both mind and tongue into someone who holds aspects of both his parents in his person. I do feel sorry for him and Aranya, though. Their relationship is so very precious and must be preserved!! (Though your other works make me fear no official relationship will ever really come from it.)

I wonder how open Maitimo really is, or if Aranya is just capable at reading the hearts of others. Being a councillor and being in politics requires a certain skill in the art of "poker-face", I think. So my conclusion is Aranya has grown very good at reading Maitimo's expressions above others who look at him.

I was particularly happy at Maitimo's management of the fearful horse. Patience and careful handling produced a confident, tame steed ready to obey his master's call...except when Aranya is involved XD

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

We miss you too. Life's just not the same without our soft and warm biggest bro. >_>
(For context: Curufin likes warm and soft/fluffy things, and when he was little, Maedhros felt like this to him, with the red of his hair adding to the impression of warmth. It was a good first impression, I guess.)

Aww, this is so cute!! 🥺 His personality is definitely warm too, and I tend to use warmth as imagery when describing him.

I particularly liked this part, and the sort of melancholy tone of it. It's also a wonderful thing when you start wondering what another person thinks about certain things. It speaks to how much they mean to you.

If only they both knew what the other was thinking! Aranya would probably faint if she knew Maitimo was thinking about this stuff!!

Maitimo is growing up! I am proud of our red-headed young councillor, rising in strength of both mind and tongue into someone who holds aspects of both his parents in his person. I do feel sorry for him and Aranya, though. Their relationship is so very precious and must be preserved!! (Though your other works make me fear no official relationship will ever really come from it.)

Mairanya for life!! And yeah, I mean, the Prologue of this story definitely reveals stuff from hundreds of years later, so you already know it's gonna be a while before anything happens... if ever.

I wonder how open Maitimo really is, or if Aranya is just capable at reading the hearts of others. Being a councillor and being in politics requires a certain skill in the art of "poker-face", I think. So my conclusion is Aranya has grown very good at reading Maitimo's expressions above others who look at him.

Hmm, it's definitely a debate worth having. I'd argue Maitimo really does wear his heart on his sleeve, and this can be to his detriment in politics. But how much he's really doing that, versus how much Aranya can perceive just because she knows him, that is definitely debatable. (And this is one of the things I love most about writing! Using a character's limited POV, tainted with their own biases and worldview, so that the reader is not getting the full story. The Silmarillion itself is like this. There is lots of missing information since we only know what the House of Elrond knows.)

I was particularly happy at Maitimo's management of the fearful horse. Patience and careful handling produced a confident, tame steed ready to obey his master's call...except when Aranya is involved XD

Hehe! Some interesting things regarding that are coming up very soon!

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

Also, I plan on publishing Chapter 5 a little later today. But before I do that, I just wanted to give a special shout out and thanks to @Server Room Gremlin , who has become an increasingly essential person to the development of IC&SF. Not only has she been a reliable provider of big-picture feedback in the early draft stages, but more recently, she has also been offering her proofreading services before I release a chapter. So, after I've made edits to a first draft, she goes through with a fine tooth comb and carefully looks for typos and grammatically awkward sentences, which I often miss due to having read my own thing a billion times. It's a very generous thing to lend your time and mental energy to somebody else's writing like that, and it really is helpful for me to have someone help get rid of those pesky typos so I don't embarrass myself by posting them publicly. Behind-the-scenes work like this often doesn't get recognition, but Servo is very deserving of it!

 

[Maedhros_Nelyafinwë]

Alright y'all, who's ready for what might be my favorite IC&SF chapter so far??

This was the very first thing I wrote for this fic, aside from the Prologue. The idea for this scene was one of the first ideas I had for the fic in general, so needless to say, it's very near and dear to my heart.

The main reason why I write is because I love to see how my writing impacts people's thoughts, emotions and imagination. Since we're separated by the Internet, I don't get to see your reaction, and that's why comments mean so much to me. So please, if you have any thoughts or feelings about this chapter, please leave a comment. I'd love to hear from you!

 

[WatcherWraith]

Empathy had a couple smacks for me this chapter. Aranya's feelings for Maitimo being so baldly exposed and rejected like that by an authority figure...ouch. I had the urge to hustle the healer away from Aranya and to make her leave the girl alone. At the same time, though...I knew why the matter was being brought up.
I don't agree, however, Aranya should not have been brought in at all! Things would have been much messier without her, healer chief what's-her-name!

And then the accident. There's gotta be more to the story than Tyelko told. Something about the way he was reacting bugged me the entire time. It felt like he was holding something back, especially when he hesitated to reveal how he'd helped his brother and the way he grumbled about the horse Maitimo loved. Fëanor, I understood, but Tyelko...or maybe I'm just wrong.

The last smack came in hardest. Aranya and Maitimo won't ever be able to have a real relationship together while Fëanor and Nerdanel remain heads of the House of Fëanor. And even when Maitimo is of age, what then? Will his mother try to find him a wife? Because he won't be able to love her, and that will be an unfair fate for the poor elf lady. But no matter what, neither parent would ever approve a lowly healer marrying their eldest son.

In one sense, a very, very distant sense, I get it. A prince marries in his own social circle, both to bring honor to his House and to maintain his familial position. Bringing someone from the lower social classes into the highest-ranking one only happens in fairy tales, or among very radically-minded royals. So Maitimo wanting to marry Aranya is unthinkable, and vice versa.
BUT THEY LOVE EACH OTHER AND THEY'RE GOOD FOR EACH OTHER.
Bah.
Stupid, stupid, painful tension.
Bah.


I genuinely enjoyed the chapter. Very bittersweet.

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

In one sense, a very, very distant sense, I get it. A prince marries in his own social circle, both to bring honor to his House and to maintain his familial position. Bringing someone from the lower social classes into the highest-ranking one only happens in fairy tales, or among very radically-minded royals. So Maitimo wanting to marry Aranya is unthinkable, and vice versa.
BUT THEY LOVE EACH OTHER AND THEY'RE GOOD FOR EACH OTHER.

It does somewhat follow a Tolkienian theme though. Beren and Lúthien were a rather uneven match in the eyes of Lúthien's family.

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

Empathy had a couple smacks for me this chapter. Aranya's feelings for Maitimo being so baldly exposed and rejected like that by an authority figure...ouch. I had the urge to hustle the healer away from Aranya and to make her leave the girl alone. At the same time, though...I knew why the matter was being brought up.
I don't agree, however, Aranya should not have been brought in at all! Things would have been much messier without her, healer chief what's-her-name!

And then the accident. There's gotta be more to the story than Tyelko told. Something about the way he was reacting bugged me the entire time. It felt like he was holding something back, especially when he hesitated to reveal how he'd helped his brother and the way he grumbled about the horse Maitimo loved. Fëanor, I understood, but Tyelko...or maybe I'm just wrong.

The last smack came in hardest. Aranya and Maitimo won't ever be able to have a real relationship together while Fëanor and Nerdanel remain heads of the House of Fëanor. And even when Maitimo is of age, what then? Will his mother try to find him a wife? Because he won't be able to love her, and that will be an unfair fate for the poor elf lady. But no matter what, neither parent would ever approve a lowly healer marrying their eldest son.

In one sense, a very, very distant sense, I get it. A prince marries in his own social circle, both to bring honor to his House and to maintain his familial position. Bringing someone from the lower social classes into the highest-ranking one only happens in fairy tales, or among very radically-minded royals. So Maitimo wanting to marry Aranya is unthinkable, and vice versa.
BUT THEY LOVE EACH OTHER AND THEY'RE GOOD FOR EACH OTHER.
Bah.
Stupid, stupid, painful tension.
Bah.


I genuinely enjoyed the chapter. Very bittersweet.

Ooh boy are you in for a ride! (This is a comment regarding everything you mentioned.)

And I don't think the 'Prince Marries In His Own Social Circle' applies here, because Nerdanel isn't a noble, no matter how great of an artisan she is. She herself married up in social status, but can't seem to understand this when someone else might want to do it. Not to her own son, at least.
Besides, all elves marry for love or at least largely consent to being married to their future spouse, which Maitimo won't at this point.